'Perceive' Contruction Diary - Page 13

ShinOBIWAN · 1st May 2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Gatti
That's funny - I did a similar thing. Wired one of my mids out of phase the first time, and things just didn't gel. Now I battery test all my woofers & mids after they're mounted.

Good to know I'm not the first to admit it

The battery test sounds useful, never thought of that. Wouldn't be much use for tweeter though

ShinOBIWAN · 1st May 2005, 01:04 PM

Well spent this morning tweaking the levels, removing/adding stuffing in the bass section and moving the speaker into slightly different positions.

I have a few Mackie HR626 active studio monitors to compare the speakers against, so these were used as a comparison when tuning. The Mackies have an anechoic response of +/- 1dB, inroom this will obviously change but its a very neutral speaker and great for benchmarking.

It was clear from the first AB comparison that there was no contest. The Mackies sounded bright and forced, midrange is a little hazy and bass non-exist, though still nice compared to these. They just don't sound half as natural as these. Playing vocals is a prime example or piano solo's.

The Mackies were my previous benchmark but these fly past them in a way that's hard to imagine and something that I wasn't really expecting since I love the Mackie sound.

I'm going to have to get a mic and measure the phase and response. Running a sweep though shows no obvious level changes about the crossover points which tells me phase is ok. The hard work that went into the baffle slope paid off.

The only problem now is that the tweeter could do with knocking down a little more, its at max attenuation on the 20k pot.

I guess it could do with a higher value eg. 30k?

Linkwitz Transform will be added soon, response is flat to 35hz but afterward it will be 20hz with improved group and phase response.

wigginjs · 1st May 2005, 02:24 PM

What software will you be using for your RTA tests?

ShinOBIWAN · 1st May 2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m0tion
What software will you be using for your RTA tests?

TrueRTA for the amplitude sweeps, its quick and simple with this program.

The bulk of measuring is done by Speaker Workshop & lspCAD. I prefer the interface on lsp but SW is far better with the TS.

ShinOBIWAN · 2nd May 2005, 12:50 AM

Bad news or at least I hope it isn't.

I've just swapped out the drivers out for the ones that will be used in the other, as yet, unfinished cabinet. Reason for doing this was to run the drivers in and then test for TS parameters so I could accurately calculate values for the LT circuit.

Unfortunately after replacing them the Scan Ring appears to be defective. It plays but the sound is very broken and distorted, its really quiet too. This one I bought from Wilmslow audio in the UK and the other one that works fine was from Germany as I got it for quite a bit less.

At first I thought it might be the amps or something like that so I swapped back over to the known working scan ring and this plays fine using the same amp. Swapped back over and the same quiet and distorted sound on the one from Wilmslow.

All the other drivers are playing fine its just this dodgy Scan. For £275 you'd think these things would cook you breakfast each morning but it seems they can't even play a decent tune!

Bit miffed really, onto Wilmslow first thing tommorow and get them to swap this one out.

Anyone else had a faulty driver from the box? And any idea's on what has gone wrong with it? Surely there isn't much to go wrong on a speaker.

I'm thinking voice coil misaligned or something to do with the voice coil at least.

ShinOBIWAN · 2nd May 2005, 11:54 PM

Bit of an update on the faulty Scan Ring:

Shortly after I posted about the problems I was having, it gave up completely. Now I cannot get any sound out of it at all.

I'm wondering if its something loose inside now?

I did turn it quite a bit as it was so quiet otherwise and this is when it went.

I'm confused?!?

First time I've ever had a speaker go fault.

5th element · 3rd May 2005, 07:01 PM

And its not as if the system is faulty because the other scan tweeter is not damaged in the least.

When a voice coil is misaligned (slightly) you tend to get sound, which is loud, and sounds horrible and it "rings" at certain frequencies. Atleast this is in my experience with a morel dome.

When you blow a driver or partially damage, it can cause a similar situation but the sound is no longer as loud as it was before and it distorts badly. If the coil was half cooked and you turned it up to get more sound out then you could have completely fried it in doing so.

On another note loose connections can also cause this to happen. I have had a loose connection to a tweeter in the past and if loose enough the sound is again distorted, and can be quieter. If a tinsel lead from the connectors to the coil are damaged and frayed then the multi strand lead could have only been connected via a couple, or even just one of its strands. If so the current capability of the wire will have been very low, turning it up could have caused the wire to simply melt, thus no sound anymore.

There is no way to tell whats happened unless you open them up and physically look at the construction and measure the coil directly on the dome. But this is not in your best interests if you want to get it swapped.

ShinOBIWAN · 3rd May 2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 5th element
And its not as if the system is faulty because the other scan tweeter is not damaged in the least.

When a voice coil is misaligned (slightly) you tend to get sound, which is loud, and sounds horrible and it "rings" at certain frequencies. Atleast this is in my experience with a morel dome.

When you blow a driver or partially damage, it can cause a similar situation but the sound is no longer as loud as it was before and it distorts badly. If the coil was half cooked and you turned it up to get more sound out then you could have completely fried it in doing so.

On another note loose connections can also cause this to happen. I have had a loose connection to a tweeter in the past and if loose enough the sound is again distorted, and can be quieter. If a tinsel lead from the connectors to the coil are damaged and frayed then the multi strand lead could have only been connected via a couple, or even just one of its strands. If so the current capability of the wire will have been very low, turning it up could have caused the wire to simply melt, thus no sound anymore.

There is no way to tell whats happened unless you open them up and physically look at the construction and measure the coil directly on the dome. But this is not in your best interests if you want to get it swapped.

Could any number of those things.

I know its definitely not the amps that are faulty because they play fine with other drivers. Cabling again is soldered at the amp end and terminated with 5mm female blades at the speaker end.

Doesn't sound like a misaligned voice coil because it wasn't loud at all, quite the opposite. You really had to turn it up to hear a thing.

So more likely is a fault in the voice coil itself.

Certainly not going to open it up as its not my problem, I doubt very much if I could repair anything and even if I could, I wouldn't like the idea of £275 driver that I've repaired because it was faulty from factory. I've spoken to Wilmslow Audio today and they're going to swap it out for another one so it looks like its sorted now.

Byrd · 6th May 2005, 06:03 AM

Ohhhh Shinobiwan

Will you be selling these on ebay

for $7000

Seriosly though VERY VERY nice is all I can say - Brilliant Cabinetry! Certainly an inspiration

If you havn't had your router sorted yet - I love my Triton - they are quite inovative and pretty good quality. They have all the features you were looking for.

Keep the updates comming

ShinOBIWAN · 6th May 2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Byrd
Ohhhh Shinobiwan

Will you be selling these on ebay for $7000

Seriosly though VERY VERY nice is all I can say - Brilliant Cabinetry! Certainly an inspiration

If you havn't had your router sorted yet - I love my Triton - they are quite inovative and pretty good quality. They have all the features you were looking for.

Keep the updates comming

$7000

They've probably cost me close to that in just the materials, drivers and electronics.

Cheers Byrd.

The other cabinet is catching up with this one, still need to sort out all the mounting for the amps and rear panels for both though.

1st May 2005, 02:24 PM	#123
wigginjs diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, SC	What software will you be using for your RTA tests? __________________ The Four Chairs DIY Home Theater

3rd May 2005, 07:01 PM	#127
5th element diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England	And its not as if the system is faulty because the other scan tweeter is not damaged in the least. When a voice coil is misaligned (slightly) you tend to get sound, which is loud, and sounds horrible and it "rings" at certain frequencies. Atleast this is in my experience with a morel dome. When you blow a driver or partially damage, it can cause a similar situation but the sound is no longer as loud as it was before and it distorts badly. If the coil was half cooked and you turned it up to get more sound out then you could have completely fried it in doing so. On another note loose connections can also cause this to happen. I have had a loose connection to a tweeter in the past and if loose enough the sound is again distorted, and can be quieter. If a tinsel lead from the connectors to the coil are damaged and frayed then the multi strand lead could have only been connected via a couple, or even just one of its strands. If so the current capability of the wire will have been very low, turning it up could have caused the wire to simply melt, thus no sound anymore. There is no way to tell whats happened unless you open them up and physically look at the construction and measure the coil directly on the dome. But this is not in your best interests if you want to get it swapped. __________________ What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Droggon Attack!

6th May 2005, 06:03 AM	#129
Byrd diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cape Town, South Africa	Ohhhh Shinobiwan Will you be selling these on ebay for $7000 Seriosly though VERY VERY nice is all I can say - Brilliant Cabinetry! Certainly an inspiration If you havn't had your router sorted yet - I love my Triton - they are quite inovative and pretty good quality. They have all the features you were looking for. Keep the updates comming __________________ Ross Saunders

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1st May 2005, 01:04 PM	#122
ShinOBIWAN diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK	Well spent this morning tweaking the levels, removing/adding stuffing in the bass section and moving the speaker into slightly different positions. I have a few Mackie HR626 active studio monitors to compare the speakers against, so these were used as a comparison when tuning. The Mackies have an anechoic response of +/- 1dB, inroom this will obviously change but its a very neutral speaker and great for benchmarking. It was clear from the first AB comparison that there was no contest. The Mackies sounded bright and forced, midrange is a little hazy and bass non-exist, though still nice compared to these. They just don't sound half as natural as these. Playing vocals is a prime example or piano solo's. The Mackies were my previous benchmark but these fly past them in a way that's hard to imagine and something that I wasn't really expecting since I love the Mackie sound. I'm going to have to get a mic and measure the phase and response. Running a sweep though shows no obvious level changes about the crossover points which tells me phase is ok. The hard work that went into the baffle slope paid off. The only problem now is that the tweeter could do with knocking down a little more, its at max attenuation on the 20k pot. I guess it could do with a higher value eg. 30k? Linkwitz Transform will be added soon, response is flat to 35hz but afterward it will be 20hz with improved group and phase response.

2nd May 2005, 12:50 AM	#125
ShinOBIWAN diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK	Bad news or at least I hope it isn't. I've just swapped out the drivers out for the ones that will be used in the other, as yet, unfinished cabinet. Reason for doing this was to run the drivers in and then test for TS parameters so I could accurately calculate values for the LT circuit. Unfortunately after replacing them the Scan Ring appears to be defective. It plays but the sound is very broken and distorted, its really quiet too. This one I bought from Wilmslow audio in the UK and the other one that works fine was from Germany as I got it for quite a bit less. At first I thought it might be the amps or something like that so I swapped back over to the known working scan ring and this plays fine using the same amp. Swapped back over and the same quiet and distorted sound on the one from Wilmslow. All the other drivers are playing fine its just this dodgy Scan. For £275 you'd think these things would cook you breakfast each morning but it seems they can't even play a decent tune! Bit miffed really, onto Wilmslow first thing tommorow and get them to swap this one out. Anyone else had a faulty driver from the box? And any idea's on what has gone wrong with it? Surely there isn't much to go wrong on a speaker. I'm thinking voice coil misaligned or something to do with the voice coil at least.

2nd May 2005, 11:54 PM	#126
ShinOBIWAN diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK	Bit of an update on the faulty Scan Ring: Shortly after I posted about the problems I was having, it gave up completely. Now I cannot get any sound out of it at all. I'm wondering if its something loose inside now? I did turn it quite a bit as it was so quiet otherwise and this is when it went. I'm confused?!? First time I've ever had a speaker go fault.

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