Best midrange for intelligibility of voice

[Puggie]

The Morels 144s are very good, I'm looking at using a pair of the 114s for my centre as they fit under the TV nicely, very natural and intelligable for voice and excellent off axis response (and you can get away with 1st order Xovers too while giving them silly power).

 

[wintermute]

well spotted pink mouse..... I saw your mistake and then made one myself!!!! must have had tweeters on my mind

Tony.

 

[planet10]

Planet 10 are you there??

Just caught the thread...

My WR125s are still awaiting the boxes ... going to retrofit my pyramids for a monopole experiment and i've a bipole (with help from Tim) i have to get my butt in gear and draw.

Keep in mind that for the price of 2 Jordans you can have 4 WR125...i'm not a big fan of centre channels, you should consider making a stereo pair of WR125s as opposed to a single Jordan...

dave

 

[rick57]

Pinkmouse & wintermute

A quick surf shows that the Morels cover the desired range, and are excellent value.

But it’s unlikely that poly cones (albeit good ones based on Dynaudio) are unlikely to have quite the detail of metal cones.
quite

 

[rick57]

Dave
> “for the price of 2 Jordans you can have 4 WR125”

Haven’t done a price survey, but the only place I know selling both, Creative Sound sells the JX92S for $C200, and the CSS WR125S – ah - that’s a **pair** for $C165 (hadn’t noticed that before - thanks!).

> ...i'm not a big fan of centre channels,

Nor I.
In my main (dual music-movie) system, there will be no centre.
But this ‘system’ is pure movie & TV.
(nb: I have two locally home but professionally made 4.5 inch metal cones, with (I believe Seas Alnico magnet based) drivers that could later be the L&R in this widely dispersed seating arrangement for five people).

So price aside, as I’d need to find a use for the spare CSS from the pair (it wouldn’t be hard, but time is an issue) – which do you think should reproduce voice better - or not much difference?

Cheers

 

[pinkmouse]

quite

You might be suprised!

I sure wish we still had an Adire dealer in the UK. If I had the cash/backing, I might be tempted to try set one up.

 

[rick57]

dave
I’ve read eg:
“I heard the CSS twice, and was stunned. For such a small driver, the bass extension was surprising. High end good also. Hardly needs a tweeter.”

So great bass for the size & top extension, but he didn’t mention the mids.
Did you hear them before you bought them?

Pinkmouse
Clumsy 1st attempt at using change of font characteristics!
I might be surprised, but in the absence of being able to hear, am relying partly on general characteristic patterns.

 

[gary f]

Speech intelligibility

Hello

Speech intelligibility is influenced by the sound spectrum produced by your system. First thing is to choose of course a low distorsion driver for the midrange. But, if you want to increase intelligibility, you may want to change the frequency response of your system so you have less bass and more energy in the 300-5000 range. It will not be optimal for music, but for speech, it will be better.

F

 

[morbo]

Rick, you may be interested in this:

http://home.new.rr.com/zaph/audio/4.5test

Also, I don't know if you need shielding or not, if so I don't know if the Jordan is shielded or not.

 

[planet10]

But it’s unlikely that poly cones (albeit good ones based on Dynaudio) are unlikely to have quite the detail of metal cones.

Poly. i'm not that all fond of, but it is very hard to make a metal cone driver that has a decent response as it starts to roll off... the Jordans being one major exception. Ted has spent on the order of 40 years working on getting them to where they behave more like a paper cone does. The current drivers have come a long way since the Jordan-Watts modules i had 30 years ago.

dave

 

[planet10]

I don't know if you need shielding or not, if so I don't know if the Jordan is shielded or not.

The current version of the JX92 is shielded.

dave

 

[planet10]

I’ve read eg:
“I heard the CSS twice, and was stunned. For such a small driver, the bass extension was surprising. High end good also. Hardly needs a tweeter.”

So great bass for the size & top extension, but he didn’t mention the mids.
Did you hear them before you bought them?

The mids are what they do best, but after everyone being used to 4" bass from FE103 class drivers they do astounding bass, and from the FR curves you expect them to be noticiably rolled off at the top... that they don't meet these preconceived expectations is why pople's 1st comments are about the ends of the spectrum.

I heard a number of implementations at the last RAWfest... the line arrays with these (given a room that was WAY to small, and an unoptimized Dan Wiggens style XO) they were not put in the best light, but a simple 2-way was much better, and the weird ML-QW box with a single WR125 -- althou still not optimum (you needed to sit on a very HIGH chair) were quite stunning. I really want to hear them in a bipole based on an ML-TL design Tim worked up usuing Augspurger's SW. Tim did a MMT with a Foster dome, i'm going to commit heresy and try them with a waveguide loaded ApexJr 50 cent tweeter (and then maybe the $11 gold version by Audax)

dave

 

[tbla]

you said not wildly expensive, so i can't recommend my fave ATC soft dome

have we ever talked about this before......

 

[Greg B]

I forgot to say, if it were my project, I'd go high efficiency and use a Radian 12 coaxial. This is a driver actually used in soundstage mixing systems. I don't know if that would meet your budget or not.

BTW, I like ribbons for music, but they wouldn't be really my first choice for HT, though they work OK. I tried them for this and they ultimately got relocated. My AC ribbons have superior detail resolution, but a slight shimmery coloration and compressed sound, compared to compression horns. I prefer them at modest SPL levels.

GB

 

[rick57]

Gary f
Very good point. Maybe I should tailor the response a little to boost 200-5000.
I’ve googled a bit on this, but haven’t found anything for a while – do you have a link?

Morbo
Thanks (I’ve seen that)

Greg B
How much is a Radian 12 coaxial, if it’s 12 inch it would be too big fir this app.
Compression would not be good for music, but ok IMO for HT.

Dave
“The mids are what they do best” – great, thanks!
(As long as they’re about as good as the Jordan 92).

BTW, what’s Augspurger's SW

Is there a site (Adire??) that has more info on the CSS WR125, eg cone material . .

 

[morbo]

Rick - the cone material is paper, surround is rubber, phase plug is copper. A very attractive driver IMO. Here's more info;

http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF

 

[planet10]

BTW, what’s Augspurger's SW

http://www.audioXpress.com/bksprods/sotware/sofTLwrx.htm

One of the 2 available modelers for TLines... I've seen it and i think anyone looking for such software would be better off getting a copy of MathCad & using Martin's model.

dave

 

[mcp]

8" Radian CoAx

Hi Rick

You may want to check out the Radian 508/2B

Works well in sealed box too.

Regards

 

[Variac]

info at Parts express
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-718

They are suposed to sound good!

 

[rick57]

morbo

Thanks! I hadn’t seen the PDF link (where was it?)
So paper cone can equal metal?

Dave
I tried to get/ install a copy of MathCad a few months ago, but IIRC it wouldn’t install on Win XP.

mcp
The Radian looks very good, but not for my app. But I let a friend know, thanks.

Variac
And very good $ too.