Vifa P17/D25 bookshelves + subwoofer?

iconic83 · 9th February 2005, 06:38 AM

hi there, i'm fishball79's friend described here chris (fishball79) made some speakers for me, the vifa p17/d25 bookshelves at audiodiycentral

i finally received my nad 3020e back from him and have been listening to the vifa bookshelves lately.. but after listening to these speakers they severly lack any bass extension. i did have a sub for it in a poorly designed box, but sold it off. chris now recommends using a peerless 8" woofer mated to a WES 200W plate amp

im not too sure about adding in a sub as i had troubles integrating the old sub well with the bookshelves, but i think it was more to do with the box..

but yeah im not sure whether to add in a sub or make new speakers using the same drivers, as in Kai Stark's V3 MTMs or another floorstander design..

i don't have any complaints about the drivers as they are my first speakers, but there just isn't any bass. as mentioned in chris' thread the room isn't optimal, thin walls and glass windows on one side. the room is just my bedroom and the listening distance is extremely short, around 1 metre at most. here is a pic:

i've been listening to alot of hip hop/rap lately so bass (high and mid) is quite important. i do listen other types of music, so i don't really want something boomy or peaky..

i guess if anyone can share their opinion, it would be greatly appreciated!

thank you,
peter

Nisbeth · 9th February 2005, 07:38 AM

As the P17/D25-design only goes to about 80 Hz, you definitely need a sub if you want bass, but since the design also has quite smooth rolloff, you shouldn't have much difficulty in mating it to a sub

/U.

noodle_snacks · 9th February 2005, 09:23 AM

One possible option would be to convert the sealed boxes to floorstanding, ported ones, with a P17 you should get down to around 40hz or so....

fishball79 · 9th February 2005, 09:52 AM

Pfft, iconic doesnt trust me!

I suggested a sub instead of increasing the box size due to several reasons.

1 - A seperate subwoofer would relieve the P17 of bass duties, thus improving midrange

2 - Seeing how messy and small his room is, having bookshelfs that can be placed in livable positions whereas a small subwoofer can be placed in the acoustically opimum positions

3 - He currently uses a 20w NAD, having a seperate sub with a subwoofer plate amp would also reduce the power requirements of the speakers and thus, again, improving sonics.

What do you guys think?

Chris

rabbitz · 9th February 2005, 10:17 AM

I agree with noodle_snacks and make a vented floorstander. I've heard the same drivers in a vented bookshelf of about 18 litres and the bass is not lacking at all.

A sub in there might be over the top.

Oh, BTW, forget about the Peerless 8" for a sub unless it's the XLS 830491. Works well with music but it's not a HT rattler.

tktran · 10th February 2005, 04:59 PM

I agree with all points made by fishball79.

AFAIK, John Kreskovsky designed it with the 80Hz 2nd order rolloff to assist with subwoofer integration.

It certainly wasn't supposed to be a "full-range" loudspeaker.

noodle_snacks · 11th February 2005, 04:55 AM

Sub would probably be better in the end, but in the mean time it would only cost $50 - $60 to convert it to ported.

iconic83 · 11th February 2005, 07:51 AM

thank you for the opinions. i think i might go for a sub.. i'm not too sure as my brother is moving out of the house, so i guess i might get a 'dedicated' listening room.. which means that i might upgrade the amplifier and thus speakers..

btw noodle_snacks do you have any schematics or links for a ported floorstander using the vifa drivers?

thanks!

noodle_snacks · 11th February 2005, 09:06 AM

The old Loudspeaker Kit F6 MK1 used a P17 and D27 (very similar) in a floor stander.

Basically I think you could keep the same crossover. I would just download winISD and simulate your current cabs and then simulate some new ported boxes, basically you would be able to see the *rough* performance difference, don't forget because of driver differences the final cab wouldn't be exactly the same so you may want to tweak port length etc a bit.

If you kept your original cabinets you would be able to change to a sub/sat system later or perhaps turn them into surrounds or similar.

A quick search found this:

P17WJ and D27TG into a floorstander-advice.

9th February 2005, 06:38 AM	#1
iconic83 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: brisbane	Vifa P17/D25 bookshelves + subwoofer? hi there, i'm fishball79's friend described here chris (fishball79) made some speakers for me, the vifa p17/d25 bookshelves at audiodiycentral i finally received my nad 3020e back from him and have been listening to the vifa bookshelves lately.. but after listening to these speakers they severly lack any bass extension. i did have a sub for it in a poorly designed box, but sold it off. chris now recommends using a peerless 8" woofer mated to a WES 200W plate amp im not too sure about adding in a sub as i had troubles integrating the old sub well with the bookshelves, but i think it was more to do with the box.. but yeah im not sure whether to add in a sub or make new speakers using the same drivers, as in Kai Stark's V3 MTMs or another floorstander design.. i don't have any complaints about the drivers as they are my first speakers, but there just isn't any bass. as mentioned in chris' thread the room isn't optimal, thin walls and glass windows on one side. the room is just my bedroom and the listening distance is extremely short, around 1 metre at most. here is a pic: i've been listening to alot of hip hop/rap lately so bass (high and mid) is quite important. i do listen other types of music, so i don't really want something boomy or peaky.. i guess if anyone can share their opinion, it would be greatly appreciated! thank you, peter

9th February 2005, 09:52 AM	#4
fishball79 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Sunny Isle Singapura	Pfft, iconic doesnt trust me! I suggested a sub instead of increasing the box size due to several reasons. 1 - A seperate subwoofer would relieve the P17 of bass duties, thus improving midrange 2 - Seeing how messy and small his room is, having bookshelfs that can be placed in livable positions whereas a small subwoofer can be placed in the acoustically opimum positions 3 - He currently uses a 20w NAD, having a seperate sub with a subwoofer plate amp would also reduce the power requirements of the speakers and thus, again, improving sonics. What do you guys think? Chris __________________ C h r i s

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9th February 2005, 07:38 AM	#2
Nisbeth diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark	As the P17/D25-design only goes to about 80 Hz, you definitely need a sub if you want bass, but since the design also has quite smooth rolloff, you shouldn't have much difficulty in mating it to a sub /U.

9th February 2005, 09:23 AM	#3
noodle_snacks diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hobart, Tasmania	One possible option would be to convert the sealed boxes to floorstanding, ported ones, with a P17 you should get down to around 40hz or so....

9th February 2005, 10:17 AM	#5
rabbitz diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Newcastle, Australia	I agree with noodle_snacks and make a vented floorstander. I've heard the same drivers in a vented bookshelf of about 18 litres and the bass is not lacking at all. A sub in there might be over the top. Oh, BTW, forget about the Peerless 8" for a sub unless it's the XLS 830491. Works well with music but it's not a HT rattler.

10th February 2005, 04:59 PM	#6
tktran Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth	I agree with all points made by fishball79. AFAIK, John Kreskovsky designed it with the 80Hz 2nd order rolloff to assist with subwoofer integration. It certainly wasn't supposed to be a "full-range" loudspeaker.

11th February 2005, 04:55 AM	#7
noodle_snacks diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hobart, Tasmania	Sub would probably be better in the end, but in the mean time it would only cost $50 - $60 to convert it to ported.

11th February 2005, 07:51 AM	#8
iconic83 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: brisbane	thank you for the opinions. i think i might go for a sub.. i'm not too sure as my brother is moving out of the house, so i guess i might get a 'dedicated' listening room.. which means that i might upgrade the amplifier and thus speakers.. btw noodle_snacks do you have any schematics or links for a ported floorstander using the vifa drivers? thanks!

11th February 2005, 09:06 AM	#9
noodle_snacks diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hobart, Tasmania	The old Loudspeaker Kit F6 MK1 used a P17 and D27 (very similar) in a floor stander. Basically I think you could keep the same crossover. I would just download winISD and simulate your current cabs and then simulate some new ported boxes, basically you would be able to see the rough performance difference, don't forget because of driver differences the final cab wouldn't be exactly the same so you may want to tweak port length etc a bit. If you kept your original cabinets you would be able to change to a sub/sat system later or perhaps turn them into surrounds or similar. A quick search found this: P17WJ and D27TG into a floorstander-advice.

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