Finally completed "Delta" enclosure (pics) - Page 4

David Gatti · 11th February 2005, 09:15 PM

I've never heard that driver diysmartdeep, so can't comment on it's sound. At this level, the law of diminishing returns is in effect so the differences are subtle and it's more a matter of personal taste. Sure, with 2rd order or greater, Xmax is irrelevant.
If it will make you sleep better at night, then it's worth buying

diysmartdeep21 · 11th February 2005, 09:16 PM

yeah but a passive becoz of its size im expecting the external placement of the crossover...

well I want to use the scanspeak 7xxxxxxx with the 7 inch Revelator with 3rd order or 6th order linkz witz raliy crossover for the satellites ( 7.1 speaker setup ) with the velodyne dd18? with the Rotel RMB 1048 to powerup the satellites ....

how is the setup?...

Does it sounds good?

David Gatti · 11th February 2005, 09:22 PM

Sounds like an awesome setup!

wigginjs · 11th February 2005, 10:38 PM

David:

I was hoping you could explain your logic behind choosing a passive crossover. It would seem that with a very complicated 4-way system an active digital crossover would make your crossover prototyping much faster. Also, it's my understanding at least, that an active crossover setup gives the amplifiers much more control over each individual driver (higher damping due to lack of crossover components in between the amp and the driver) and also allows each individual driver to be more sensitive (due to the lack of resistance from crossover components in between the amps and the drivers). The only downside I can see is that it would require 8 channels of amplification for the stereo pair. I think that with the amount of time and money you've invested in creating these truly beautiful speakers (both visually and technically) you should really take a look into having an active crossover if you haven't already. Again, wonderful job, I'm extremely impressed.

David Gatti · 11th February 2005, 11:56 PM

Hi Motion
I guess you could call these a more "classic" speaker design. You know my best experiences and memories have always been with large floor standing passive design. Maybe I'm more of a traditionalist.
People say 4-way is complicated. In some ways it is, but in other ways, it simplifies the crossover design because you are not operating the drivers on the edge of their pass band and pushing them to their limits. Also, all of these drivers are very well behaved, and thus minimalist 1st/2nd order crossovers can be used, which in my experience gives are more natural and dynamic sound. I think digital x-overs and multi-amping is unnecessary and probably does more harm than good for this type of linear phase design.
I have always found the sound of opamps disapponting in terms of dynamics, depth and warmth, and I prefer the relative simplicity of a passive design rather than a complex 8 channel setup. You also have heat, reliability & power consumption issues. Having said that one day I may bi-amplify to try to get the best of both worlds, but I think that's as far as I'd take it.
Sensiitvity isn't an issue as these are a very health 89dB/2.83V. The sound is already extremely good with my first crossover, and I can now take my time to listen/measure and test various options. They will always be a work in progress.

wigginjs · 12th February 2005, 01:30 AM

A well justified response, you certainly sound like you're an experienced speaker builder. Congratulations on this speaker, it is a notworthy accomplishment.

camaro71 · 26th April 2012, 10:28 AM

wonderful speaker, a great job congratulations

camaro71 · 26th April 2012, 10:29 AM

you can replace the tweeter with the Dynaudio D260 tweeter Esotec which should be more powerful?

David Gatti · 26th April 2012, 12:04 PM

Tweeter power handling isn't an issue here and I'd rather use something more modern and widely available than the Dynaudio.

camaro71 · 26th April 2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Gatti

Tweeter power handling isn't an issue here and I'd rather use something more modern and widely available than the Dynaudio.

many thanks.
I have an unused pair of Dynaudio D260 tweeter Esotec I really like even if not at the level of Esotar
you might use in your project?

11th February 2005, 10:38 PM	#34
wigginjs diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, SC	David: I was hoping you could explain your logic behind choosing a passive crossover. It would seem that with a very complicated 4-way system an active digital crossover would make your crossover prototyping much faster. Also, it's my understanding at least, that an active crossover setup gives the amplifiers much more control over each individual driver (higher damping due to lack of crossover components in between the amp and the driver) and also allows each individual driver to be more sensitive (due to the lack of resistance from crossover components in between the amps and the drivers). The only downside I can see is that it would require 8 channels of amplification for the stereo pair. I think that with the amount of time and money you've invested in creating these truly beautiful speakers (both visually and technically) you should really take a look into having an active crossover if you haven't already. Again, wonderful job, I'm extremely impressed. __________________ The Four Chairs DIY Home Theater

12th February 2005, 01:30 AM	#36
wigginjs diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Columbia, SC	A well justified response, you certainly sound like you're an experienced speaker builder. Congratulations on this speaker, it is a notworthy accomplishment. __________________ The Four Chairs DIY Home Theater

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11th February 2005, 09:15 PM	#31
David Gatti diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	I've never heard that driver diysmartdeep, so can't comment on it's sound. At this level, the law of diminishing returns is in effect so the differences are subtle and it's more a matter of personal taste. Sure, with 2rd order or greater, Xmax is irrelevant. If it will make you sleep better at night, then it's worth buying

11th February 2005, 09:16 PM	#32
diysmartdeep21 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: ANDHRA PRADESH	yeah but a passive becoz of its size im expecting the external placement of the crossover... well I want to use the scanspeak 7xxxxxxx with the 7 inch Revelator with 3rd order or 6th order linkz witz raliy crossover for the satellites ( 7.1 speaker setup ) with the velodyne dd18? with the Rotel RMB 1048 to powerup the satellites .... how is the setup?... Does it sounds good?

11th February 2005, 09:22 PM	#33
David Gatti diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Sounds like an awesome setup!

11th February 2005, 11:56 PM	#35
David Gatti diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Hi Motion I guess you could call these a more "classic" speaker design. You know my best experiences and memories have always been with large floor standing passive design. Maybe I'm more of a traditionalist. People say 4-way is complicated. In some ways it is, but in other ways, it simplifies the crossover design because you are not operating the drivers on the edge of their pass band and pushing them to their limits. Also, all of these drivers are very well behaved, and thus minimalist 1st/2nd order crossovers can be used, which in my experience gives are more natural and dynamic sound. I think digital x-overs and multi-amping is unnecessary and probably does more harm than good for this type of linear phase design. I have always found the sound of opamps disapponting in terms of dynamics, depth and warmth, and I prefer the relative simplicity of a passive design rather than a complex 8 channel setup. You also have heat, reliability & power consumption issues. Having said that one day I may bi-amplify to try to get the best of both worlds, but I think that's as far as I'd take it. Sensiitvity isn't an issue as these are a very health 89dB/2.83V. The sound is already extremely good with my first crossover, and I can now take my time to listen/measure and test various options. They will always be a work in progress.

26th April 2012, 10:28 AM	#37
camaro71 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sondrio	wonderful speaker, a great job congratulations

26th April 2012, 10:29 AM	#38
camaro71 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sondrio	you can replace the tweeter with the Dynaudio D260 tweeter Esotec which should be more powerful?

26th April 2012, 12:04 PM	#39
David Gatti diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Tweeter power handling isn't an issue here and I'd rather use something more modern and widely available than the Dynaudio.

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