3 way with Adire HE10 and AE AV12

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
I currently have a pair of stereo subs using AE speakers AV12 powered by Behringer EP2500 and I'm happy with them but my mains with MTM P17s can keep up! I'm considering as an upgrade the HE12 kit from adire, in a small sealed cabinet, with a Norh style cabinet to sit on top of each sub.

* considering an active version with a tube amp on the tweeter, very lower power due to the 105 sens

* xo to subs at 80 - 120 Hz

They model with similar output, so no real need for HE12 or more drivers, although initially I was thinking of adding a 2nd Beta 10 driver and later adding more subs.

Who has heard the HE10 or HE12 or similar and can comment on how they compare to DIY floorstanders like mine?

I'm wondering if I'm giving up anything here. I hope not.

What appeals more than just the output is the controlled directivity above 2k and the fact that is it coaxial which seems to me better than either fullrange or 2 way. Also low distortion. Does anyone have info on distortion of these drivers? Ideas anyone?

I like the idea of the Seas coax but it doesn't really have the output I'm looking for.

What about mods for the Eminence Beta 10cx?
* coating the paper woofer with say a clear spray on finish ... or using a silver paint for cosmetic reasons - who has done similar and can comment on the impact it has sonically?

Flatness is not a huge issue as I have Ultracurve, but what I like about this driver is I suspect the power response is better. Can anyone comment on this?

Thanks for your input guys.

PS - after searching I was very surprised to find little discussion on the HE10 & HE12. To me they seem as gems, although I don't really want to have to use a fullrange tube amp. From what I can see about 60w is needed to get the most out of them ... more power if they are crossed higher, which I could only consider with a sub that can get up to 400 Hz in which case I'd have a speaker not unlike the Adire Hurricane with 400w.
 

GM

Member
Joined 2003
I'm very familiar with the genre' and recommend the HE12.1 every time it's appropriate based on what I know about them spec-wise and through third party experience, just don't have any first hand experience with them. If they had a comparable 90deg 18", I would recommend them instead since I'm a firm believer in having good acoustic efficiency down into the midbass and a 18" begins beaming low enough to have directivity control to down below our head frequency.

FWIW, for HIFI apps I always recommend removing the DC on this type of coaxial, as well as the bug screens in compression drivers, and so far, all the folks who've reported back were pleased with the slight improvement, including the HE10.1/12.1.

In general, my experience with Vifa drivers is that they are dull/lifeless compared to HE drivers and are great for skeet practice. ;)

WRT power response, this design type will have a narrowing of response with increasing frequency, ergo less room interaction, and of course a smaller 'sweet' spot, similar to a FR driver.

Paper woofers normally have one or more types of coatings on them depending on the desired rigidity and/or BW, and without knowing the details you run the risk of damaging them (been there, done that). That said, I've had good luck with light coats of Krylon brand fast dry enamel shot through a touch-up gun, with little/no impact on performance.

Anyway, get in touch Saurav (assuming he doesn't chime in) since he did some testing/tweaking on his 12.1s, eventually swapping the HF CD with a Selenium IIRC, but ultimately moved on to a completely different mids/HF system with the 12.1 relegated to woofer only duty, which IIRC he had a thread or two on this forum about all this.

GM
 
Right on cue :)

Everything GM said is correct :) I went from a very good small monitor with 5" woofers to the HE12.1, and was blown away with how much more lifelike the sound was. I eventually started to miss some of the pretty monitor sound though. I've finally ended up with the HE12.1 woofers (in their cabinets) being used as woofers, and an open baffle midrange/tweeter above that. I have threads in several forums which, if pieced together in correct chronological order, will provide a pretty accurate description of my journey. With pictures :)

I doped my woofer cone with shellac, and removed the bug screen. I thought both helped clean up the sound a little bit. The Selenium tweeter sounded nice for a while, seemed to go up higher than the original tweeter which was what I was looking for. But Dan Wiggins told me that it probably couldn't be crossed over that low, and he was right. After listening to some other speakers, I started to find the treble too distorted. By then I was curious about open baffle speakers, so that's where I ended up going. First with a horn tweeter (Fostex FT17H), and now with a ribbon (Fountek JP-3.0). I've finally also got a decent mic and preamp, so the current state of affairs is the best I've had so far.

Feel free to email me with questions. Work has been crazy lately and I don't check in on my usual forums as much as I used to.
 
I've had a listen to the HE10, the first version and overall liked the sound, however turned up they get harsh. In comparison my speakers are sweet sounding, and by no means dull or flat! I haven't given up on the idea, but not totally sold on it either.

Here's a pic of the concept:

* a dome tweeter with a waveguide added
* Adire's XBL2 version of the Beta10 used in the He10 kit without the compression driver
* AV12 subwoofers
*midrange in a sealed box with an F3@80 Hz and a 2nd order active filter

The Morel MDT37 achives ~94 db of sensitivity with 200 watts of power, so I hope to be able to achieve similar with a waveguide I will make. Not sure what xo point but it is important to have sweet sounding treble, which is my reason for not using the compression driver on the He10 as it becomes harsh (at least the first version does) at moderately loud levels, well short of what it can put out.

I hear a rumour that the XBL2version will have 11mm xmax.

An active xo would definately be involved, although I'd really like to in the future get hold of Ultradrive DCX - I think an 8th order slope for the tweeter will mean easier integration without stressing the tweeter.

The big question on my mind is can I pull this off without losing the sweet sound I really like about my existing speakers?
 

Attachments

  • 3way with av12 and he10.jpg
    3way with av12 and he10.jpg
    15.5 KB · Views: 264
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.