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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 27th January 2005, 06:45 AM   #1
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Location: California
Default Ever thought of using Signal Wizard 2?

I have read many posts from people that are trying to design DSP-based crossovers, but find the filter design and the DSP coding and debugging to be a big barrier, even with DSP evaluation kits.

Well, there is a way to do this design, without the frustration, expense, and, more importantly the learning curve!

Its called Signal Wizard. It allows you to design a filter/equalizer without;

i) any knowledge of filter mathematics, and
ii) any knowledge of DSP coding!

The invention is from Patrick Gaydecki at UMIST in the UK. He designed a PC-based software and high performance hardware module, that allows the users to specify the filter, either standard types, or from a text file import and download it to the DSP.

This allows you to VERY easily design crossovers and equalizers with arbitary shape in a matter of minutes. The program designs IIR, FIR and adaptive filters. The hardware uses state-or the art 24 bit codecs and high performance Freescale 56309 fixed point DSP.

If you are interested in IIR filter with standard shapes then its best to stick to the Behringer DCX 2496 (or equiv), but if you want to experiment with linear phase, arbitary phase/amplitude and the ability to specify any Eq shape or crossover slope, then Signal Wizard will do it. It also allows interchannel delays which allow you to precisely time-align drivers.

See url:

http://dias.umist.ac.uk/PAG/signalwizard.htm
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Old 23rd December 2005, 08:44 PM   #2
paulb is offline paulb  Canada
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Way too expensive. There should be a way to do this fairly cheaply. There is enough free DSP software that someone reasonably experienced (I'm not) could do it quickly . Keep the features minimalistic and it wouldn't be too bad.
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Old 10th January 2007, 10:25 PM   #3
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Default Is SWII being used by anyone?

Hi, I recently asked Patrick by e-mail about this product; awaiting reply. I am interested in where this fits in with other similar products (assuming there are some!) and as well who in DIY is using DSP for sub bass enhancement and loudspeaker management.

Thank you
Ronanski
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Old 11th January 2007, 02:31 AM   #4
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I have a project that uses a linux machine and a program called brutefir that does this and it's open source.

Virtual Fidelity

You can run it on a modest PC and a soundcard.

There are a number of free programs to generate filters for it.
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Old 11th January 2007, 06:47 AM   #5
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Thank you Johnny,

This is very impressive - my Linux experience is not recent, although something like this might push me to make the jump to configure a box with Linux and try it out. What a good reason to get involved in Linux again!!!

How would I be able to have stereo 3-way crossover, (with optional bridged mono for subs) using a PC sound card or is there something I'm missing here?

I've been looking at the DBX DriveRack systems as well as the SW2. One other application for DSP would be implemented at a sound company my friend owns. Is there any reason I couldn't implement parametric EQ with this including subsonic capability (eg 8-18 hz, 18-28 hz etc) with high order filters?

Would it be possible to extend your system to have similar features to the DBX DriveRack PA (http://www.dbxpro.com/PA/PA.htm)? This entry-level unit is <500$ US, and although I am not a fan of their sub-bass "synthesizer", this loudspeaker mgmt system does have the features we need. I'm not with the spare time at the moment to invest heavily into extending software -- but it appears your system may be easily extended (I'm not sure how yet!).

Would a host PC need to have HD audio or some external multi-channel sound card for discrete LF, MF, HF stereo output? Do you have any suggestions in the area of sound card capability for use with your system and the prerequisite jack, alsa, etc?

Thank you very much,

Ronanski
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Old 11th January 2007, 06:47 AM   #6
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Default Sound card for vFI

Johnnymc,

Would the RME DIGI96/8 PAD card work well with the vFI system for the applications I described? Is there anything better?

As well, any info you can point me to regarding plug-ins and extensibility for vFI would be appreciated.

I ask about the RME card because I use WinaudioMLS the FFT analyzer and this card I am told works well for this RTA (but WinaudioMLS for Windows unfortunately).

Thanks,
R
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Old 11th January 2007, 07:55 AM   #7
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The RME DIGI96/8 PAD should work. I have not tried it, but its a popular card.

I use an M-Audio Delta 410 PCI card which can be hard to find now days.

I think some of the firewire cards are supported, but you'd want to check that.

Basically vFi queries the system and should provide input and output channels based on your cards capabilities, but it has not really been tested with many cards.

On the M-Audio delta you can just pump thru the analog ins and then out to the 8 channels (like the demo).

Ronan, the underlying engine is

Brutefir convolution engine

which does all the heavy lifting. My program is just a fancy interface to it. If you have a filter, Brutefir can execute it.

The Signal Wizard and DBX products look pretty nice and are inexpensive compared to what was available a few years ago.

The drawback to the Linux PC approach is the complexity and all the amps! But that also makes it a great hobby project.

Also, I think there are some free Windows based DSP solutions that have recently come available that are worth looking at.

This guy might be on to something.
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Old 11th January 2007, 09:38 AM   #8
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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The ((acourate)) package seems to be state of the art.
There is also the deqx hardware/software combo.

Do a search in these forums or google
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Old 11th January 2007, 02:30 PM   #9
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Join Date: Feb 2002
I think part of the problem with Signal Wizard is that it's hardware based. PC's have gotten so capable that there really is no need to go with external hardware, unless it's a boutique high-end item catering to the 'purist' audiophile. The low-budget diyer can do better with a PC or possibly even a DCX2496, and the high-end guys will probably feel that the analog quality is compromised or at least not flexible enough.


IMHO, Allocator from Jan at Thuneau is the benchmark for computer DSP xovers. It's so good, so easy and so cheap that anyone looking for standard xovers is nuts if they don't give it a try. (err, in my opinion, that is)

I've used BruteFIR in the past, and there's no question it's the best raw engine out there, but unless you have some specific requirements or are looking at unconventional topologies I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. Of course, since this is diyaudio I suppose a lot of folks have unconventional ideas. I'm currently using Allocator quite happily, but my 'next generation' (assuming I persue it) will need BruteFIR or something like it.
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Old 12th January 2007, 11:05 PM   #10
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by johnnymc
The RME DIGI96/8 PAD should work. I have not tried it, but its a popular card.

I use an M-Audio Delta 410 PCI card which can be hard to find now days.

I think some of the firewire cards are supported, but you'd want to check that.

Basically vFi queries the system and should provide input and output channels based on your cards capabilities, but it has not really been tested with many cards.

On the M-Audio delta you can just pump thru the analog ins and then out to the 8 channels (like the demo).

Ronan, the underlying engine is

Brutefir convolution engine

which does all the heavy lifting. My program is just a fancy interface to it. If you have a filter, Brutefir can execute it.

The Signal Wizard and DBX products look pretty nice and are inexpensive compared to what was available a few years ago.

The drawback to the Linux PC approach is the complexity and all the amps! But that also makes it a great hobby project.

Also, I think there are some free Windows based DSP solutions that have recently come available that are worth looking at.

This guy might be on to something.

Thank you Johnnymc,

I have no problem with amplifiers -- but I'm a little "dsp challenged"... Lots of new technology (to me at least) - and if I'm purchasing a RME card or any other HW I want to be sure it will work with the widest spectrum of free/Linux DSP/audio software as well as possibly Windoze. At least I'm familar with Linux and programming.

I'll look into M-audio Delta. I started looking at RME's other products and I can see how I could spend alot of money fast especially since one application I have is pro-audio -- I'd haev to consider A/D D/A converters for 32 channels, AES/EBU, S/PDIF, on and on and on. Not sure where the RME card fits into the picture but I guess this would be the hardware DSP engine..

Thanks again!
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