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Old 29th July 2008, 07:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by gary f
My point is that it's not what I would call a instant change, thus, most conclusions based on that methodology are at least very weak.
F
+1 to this and your previous post.
Component differences are vastly overrated.
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Old 29th July 2008, 08:02 PM   #52
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Whilst I can appreciate the "quick fix" (quick to shun expensive parts?) approach some like to take, I find subtle changes tend to take a long time to comprehend. Some changes can easily be heard blindly, and some you find yourself guessing, but over time your enjoyment of the music is telling.

I don't think you'll create a superb system without some patience, just another mid-fi.

Simon
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Old 29th July 2008, 08:13 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
Whilst I can appreciate the "quick fix" (quick to shun expensive parts?) approach some like to take, I find subtle changes tend to take a long time to comprehend. Some changes can easily be heard blindly, and some you find yourself guessing, but over time your enjoyment of the music is telling.

I don't think you'll create a superb system without some patience, just another mid-fi.

Simon
My opinion is based upon a LOT of testing, most of it switchable in real time. Measurements showed no differences and any potential audible consequences were not consistently noted on my speakers or STAX electrostatic cans. The 'over time' viewpoint is way too easily discounted through differing moods and perceptions of the listener on different days and sessions.

Nice attempt at trying to trying to discount my experience with the cheap "quick fix" shot. Typical fall back position.
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Old 29th July 2008, 09:09 PM   #54
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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I'm sorry you took offence Brett. I don't need to discount anything, I'm happy and confident in my listening and success at modifying and building equipment. I hear good music.

Perhaps given further experience I'll improve my hobby skills to the point I can do it all more quickly.

Simon
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Old 29th July 2008, 09:45 PM   #55
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brett
+1 to this and your previous post.
Component differences are vastly overrated.
All luxury is vastly overrated. Utilitarian VS luxurious, an old apples to oranges argument.

Its down to human nature Brett. That elusive 1% that makes us feel overachieving. But lock senses to it and it's dragging very hard.
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Old 2nd September 2008, 03:12 AM   #56
Ceibal is offline Ceibal  United States
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Default Mundorf Caps

Looking for help in deciding which caps to go with for a cross over for the following. Sealed enclosure using Seas Millennium tweeter and Scanspeaks Revelator woofers. While cost is not a concern, I know spending a ton of money does not guarantee the best speakers. I have been looking at the Mundorf line of capacitors. I have also taken a look at some comparisons done on http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html. He rates the Silver Gold Oil as the best out of the line. I will be upgrading to the Parasound New Classics later this year. What do some of you think works best in this configuration? Will I really be able to appreciate/tell the difference with the Silver Gold Oil?
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Old 2nd September 2008, 03:44 AM   #57
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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I just did some listening and spectral decay of Mundorf M-cap capacitors in 2 designs with the following bypass capacitors added to each capacitor in series with the tweeter and midrange drivers.the spectral decay showed small changes to each one measured.Listening results were the Mundorf Supreme capacitors with Silver/Gold and oil .01 bypass capacitors added to the Supreme capacitors. These are by far the most enriching yet not compressing blend of caps I have found.

Here is what I tested for bypass caps added to Mundorf M-cap capacitors

Dayton .01uf
Sonicap GenII .1uf
Sonicap Platinum .01
Mundorf supreme .1uf
Mundorf Silver/Oil .01
Mundorf Silver/Gold and Oil .01uf
Auricap .01

Money no object!
Mundorf Supreme capacitors
then add Mundorf Silver/Gold and oil .01 bypass caps to each series capacitor.
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Old 2nd September 2008, 05:15 AM   #58
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Default Re: Mundorf Caps

Quote:
Originally posted by Ceibal
I know spending a ton of money does not guarantee the best speakers... What do some of you think works best in this configuration? Will I really be able to appreciate/tell the difference with the Silver Gold Oil?
There are two kinds of question:
(i) Can I (or anyone) really hear the differences between two kinds of caps (or any other component)? (Already been argued above.)
(ii) Even if I think I can, does it matter in the specific way the cap is being used?

I believe (ii) is often ignored. If you have a conjugate network across the driver (as most well-designed crossovers will), and there is a cap there that is in series with, say, a 15 ohm resistor, there is absolutely no point in spending $$ on caps for that position that offer super low dissipation factors, because it will make no difference whatsoever. All that matters is that the dissipation factor should be less than 5% of the resistor value. I take DF as a simple parameter but similar arguments hold for other parameters too.

Considering that about half your caps will appear in the conjugate networks, using humble nonpolars electrolytics is something that will save you lots of $$ without costing you an iota of quality, however unfashionable it may seem.

Which of course leads us to
(iii) How much of a fashion statement should my components make? No comment.

-Ram
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Old 2nd September 2008, 07:18 AM   #59
Jozua is offline Jozua  South Africa
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Default Can you hear a difference

RAW

How does the Platinum Sonicap compare to the Mundorfs? I have recently heard the Platinum caps I in my one meter long ribbon speakers system they make a helluva difference. I shudder to think that one can still get better !!


RAMKUMARR

In my experience most electronic engineers have tin ears. Many would argue with you that are no difference between caps ! The reality is totally different.

Anyone who is contemplating buying exotic caps needs to ask himself; "Does my speakers drivers have the resolution ability to show the difference in the various brands of caps?" If not then stick to "run-of-mill" high quality caps but dont waste your money on exotic caps. There is a mechannical ceiling to what a conventional speaker cone can do.

In my experience conventional cone loudspeakers will show some improvement with better caps but then you still experiment to find what cap brand works best with your speaker. Randomly buying a exotic cap does not always quarrantee a excellent sound as each speaker has it's own colourations which needs to be counterbalanced with the appropriate "coloured" capacitor. The trick lies in finding the "right" capacitor for your speaker.


Regards

Jozua
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Old 2nd September 2008, 07:38 AM   #60
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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How do the Sonicap Platinum and the Mundorfs compare?
Well for a few years we used Sonicap capacitors with Sonicap GenII bypass caps and Sonicap Platinum bypass caps as well in all our products.
But issues getting them from the US in a time frame and costly manner was challenging so we looked at other lines and settled with Mundorfs.

From what I have found out threw listening as well as customer comments so far people thing the ZN has the similar characterists of the platinum. Ya Ya not going to get into a big debate.Like I said I used the platinums for years.The Mundorf new ZN cost $13.00.The Silver and oil is my top pick now.But cost factor the ZN is hard to beat.
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