I have a pair of these coax's and would like to build cabinets for them. The speaker parameters are:
VAS 150.1 liters
QTS 0.5295
FS 40
QES 0.552
Qms 13
Re 5.5
SD 0.0506
Xmax 3.3
Pmax 25
Mms 30
Le 1.75
I have modeled, using Unibox 4.04, and both a sealed and a prted enclosure. the sealed system has an enclosure of 108.3 liters with an F3 of 58 Hz or the ported box of 280 liters with an F3 of 26 Hz. Which would be more preferable? If the ported box is preferable would it be better to have one big diameter port or 2 smaller ports.
Any input would be appreciated.
Dave
VAS 150.1 liters
QTS 0.5295
FS 40
QES 0.552
Qms 13
Re 5.5
SD 0.0506
Xmax 3.3
Pmax 25
Mms 30
Le 1.75
I have modeled, using Unibox 4.04, and both a sealed and a prted enclosure. the sealed system has an enclosure of 108.3 liters with an F3 of 58 Hz or the ported box of 280 liters with an F3 of 26 Hz. Which would be more preferable? If the ported box is preferable would it be better to have one big diameter port or 2 smaller ports.
Any input would be appreciated.
Dave
What's preferable depends on your listening 'tastes' and the room's acoustics, so don't have a clue. Personally, I design/build for all the acoustic gain I can get for a given space and if it winds up being too much, then dial it back rather than having too little and increase distortion through EQ gain.
WRT vent size, a single large one is the most efficient, but sometimes using two or more smaller ones can be a damping tweak.
WRT to your sims, these specs assumes you will be driving them with an SS amp. If tube driven, then the effective Qes/Qts will go up based on the amp's output resistance, increasing cab Vb/lowering Fb.
GM
WRT vent size, a single large one is the most efficient, but sometimes using two or more smaller ones can be a damping tweak.
WRT to your sims, these specs assumes you will be driving them with an SS amp. If tube driven, then the effective Qes/Qts will go up based on the amp's output resistance, increasing cab Vb/lowering Fb.
GM
Try this ( unefortunately only in romanian laguage ) but you can make an opinion .
I've made this cabinet and the sound is great .
http://www.difuzoare.ro/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4
I've made this cabinet and the sound is great .
http://www.difuzoare.ro/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4
Attachments
Don't forget that a box of 280 liters is about 10 cubic feet.
If you use 1 in thick building material, that would be 60 in high, by 18 in wide, by 25 in deep, approximately.
Are you prepared to deal with a couple of boxes that large?
You can build ported boxes somewhat smaller, but they will have a hump in the bass. You might not mind that. You might be able to go down to 5 cu feet, if you don't mind a 2 dB hump in the bass.
Are you planning to use these for home or PA use? If home use, do you want the sound to resemble something like what you would hear in a club?
If you use 1 in thick building material, that would be 60 in high, by 18 in wide, by 25 in deep, approximately.
Are you prepared to deal with a couple of boxes that large?
You can build ported boxes somewhat smaller, but they will have a hump in the bass. You might not mind that. You might be able to go down to 5 cu feet, if you don't mind a 2 dB hump in the bass.
Are you planning to use these for home or PA use? If home use, do you want the sound to resemble something like what you would hear in a club?
Well, I have been working with a friend off od AudioKarma.org to design boxes for these speakers. We basically came up with a 170 Liter box tuned to 30 Hz The green line is 150 liter tuned to 34 Hz and the yellow line is 170/30 Hz. There is still a small bump in the bass, but I am not sure I will actually notice it.
Attachments
My next task is working on the crossover. I have a schematic of the Galante crossover used for these drivers in their 6K -*K speakers they used to sell. The attached pdf is a copy of the the crossover (sorry it is upside down - that is the way I got it and I don't have Adobe to fix it!!).
Anyway, my problem is two-fold. 1. I can't seem to find all of the parts in the schematic - what could I use as replacements. 2. I noteced that the tweeter is hooked in out of phase but where would it hook in - before or after the 8 ohm 50 watt resistor.
Any and all comments are appreciated.
Dave
Anyway, my problem is two-fold. 1. I can't seem to find all of the parts in the schematic - what could I use as replacements. 2. I noteced that the tweeter is hooked in out of phase but where would it hook in - before or after the 8 ohm 50 watt resistor.
Any and all comments are appreciated.
Dave
What can't you find? The 8 ohm 50W 'resistor' is a potentiometer so you can adjust the tweeter's level, and looks like it's connected in-phase.
GM
GM
I am not good at reading these diagrams, so thanks for pointing that out!
I am having a hard time finding sources for the parts. I guess I should have been clearer. This will be my first real speaker build so please bear with me.
Dave
I am having a hard time finding sources for the parts. I guess I should have been clearer. This will be my first real speaker build so please bear with me.
Dave
I have a pair of these drivers too and I'm undecided what to do with them, but they'll probably end up as rears when I finish the new horn system.
The factory datasheet has a few different tunings (see pic) and I have a Karlson design too which I think is the standard K12. Personally, I'm leaning towards the K.
The factory datasheet has a few different tunings (see pic) and I have a Karlson design too which I think is the standard K12. Personally, I'm leaning towards the K.
Attachments
Well, here is all of the parameters for as many 12" EV drivers as I could find. All of these were measured and not the stock ones from EV. I enclosed all of them in the attached *.txt document.
I think you will find, if you use a Karlson cabinet, since it is a dome tweeter and not a horn type, some of the high frequency output would be blocked.
Dave
I think you will find, if you use a Karlson cabinet, since it is a dome tweeter and not a horn type, some of the high frequency output would be blocked.
Dave
I don't see what the difference between a horn and a dome driver in a coax, mounted in a K will be as they're radiating from effectively the same position wrt the K flare shape. There would be a difference compared to a second MF/HF driver mounted on top of the enclosure, but on-axis, it won't be much. Depends where you want your compromises......botrytis said:
You maybe right. I was discussing this type of cabinet, with someone else and that was the conclusion that we came up with.
We may wrong in our assumptions.
Our assumptions, stem from the fact that horns have a tendancy to "beam" HF. This is unlike a dome, which radiates in a more evenly distributed way. These were our assumptions and they could be wrong. We are basing them on our observations of these type of speakers.
I am really looking for a simple cabinet design, since my woodworking skills are at the novice level at best. A Karlson cabinet would be too complicated for me, at this time anyway.
Dave
We may wrong in our assumptions.
Our assumptions, stem from the fact that horns have a tendancy to "beam" HF. This is unlike a dome, which radiates in a more evenly distributed way. These were our assumptions and they could be wrong. We are basing them on our observations of these type of speakers.
I am really looking for a simple cabinet design, since my woodworking skills are at the novice level at best. A Karlson cabinet would be too complicated for me, at this time anyway.
Dave
>I am having a hard time finding sources for the parts.
====
Well, there's all the usual suspects: Parts Express, Madisound, Solen, Apex, MCM, Newark Electronics, etc..
====
>I have a pair of these drivers too and I'm undecided what to do with them, but they'll probably end up as rears when I finish the new horn system.
====
I did a T/S max flat ML-TL for someone last year and he seemed very pleased with it, and ditto another in a sealed cab. I just simmed Dave's and it looks good also, assuming a 4" dia. x 2" vent and it's near a wall or corner, so it should work well as a surround speaker, otherwise some BSC will be required and the bottom end will be 'soft'.
====
> These were our assumptions and they could be wrong.
====
No, they are spot on. Plus, depending on the slot dims and diaphragm material, the extra loading can deform and/or modulate it, whereas the CD's diaphragm is stiffer and somewhat protected by the throat's/filter chamber's acoustic inductance.
Anyway, while Karlsons make for efficient BPs over a fairly limited BW, for really wide BW use there's just way too much distortion for my tastes, though some folks are really hooked on them. Loaded with a good low Qt/high Vas prosound 15" and a 300-500Hz horn perched on top though and they can render a pretty realistic sounding 'live' event.
GM
====
Well, there's all the usual suspects: Parts Express, Madisound, Solen, Apex, MCM, Newark Electronics, etc..
====
>I have a pair of these drivers too and I'm undecided what to do with them, but they'll probably end up as rears when I finish the new horn system.
====
I did a T/S max flat ML-TL for someone last year and he seemed very pleased with it, and ditto another in a sealed cab. I just simmed Dave's and it looks good also, assuming a 4" dia. x 2" vent and it's near a wall or corner, so it should work well as a surround speaker, otherwise some BSC will be required and the bottom end will be 'soft'.
====
> These were our assumptions and they could be wrong.
====
No, they are spot on. Plus, depending on the slot dims and diaphragm material, the extra loading can deform and/or modulate it, whereas the CD's diaphragm is stiffer and somewhat protected by the throat's/filter chamber's acoustic inductance.
Anyway, while Karlsons make for efficient BPs over a fairly limited BW, for really wide BW use there's just way too much distortion for my tastes, though some folks are really hooked on them. Loaded with a good low Qt/high Vas prosound 15" and a 300-500Hz horn perched on top though and they can render a pretty realistic sounding 'live' event.
GM
GM,
I did look at some but not all of your list - I didn't have them all!! Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
I am not up on the lingo, yet!! Like BSC?
Dave
I did look at some but not all of your list - I didn't have them all!! Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
I am not up on the lingo, yet!! Like BSC?
Dave
Baffle step compensation. Programs sim in half space, i.e. as if the speaker was buried flush in the ground with no acoustically close boundaries to affect its response. Indeed, this was the way some manufacturers measured them in the 'good ol' days'.
Anyway, unless it's up against a wall, there will be some roll-off below the baffle's F3 point so this needs to be electrically compensated for to get a ~tonally balanced response.
GM
Anyway, unless it's up against a wall, there will be some roll-off below the baffle's F3 point so this needs to be electrically compensated for to get a ~tonally balanced response.
GM
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