I have recently sold my Ditton 15XR's on ebay which I put through and extensive upgrade. This included silver wire, rebuilt crossover, binding posts and new damping material. The guy that bought them already had a pair but he wanted to hear more of what this classic standmount could be capable of. I think he was quite impressed with the upgraded version. It may be of possible interest to any Celestion lovers that I have also experimented by replacing the ABR with a second 8" driver which is a mod I carried out on a second pair of 15's (early model of late 60's vintage). When I demonstrated the twin 8" driver version to him his jaw nearly hit the floor. I have a strong feeling that I will be assisting him in the New Year with fitting the second 8" unit in place of the ABR! I would like to hear from anyone else who may have carried out work in looking to improve the Ditton 15.
Tim
Tim
Celestion Ditton 15 Upgrades
Hi Brett
Well I started of by replacing those dreadful binding posts that were so prone to becoming loose. The posts were replaced with quality gold plated posts which accepted bare wire, banana and spade connectors. Interally was where the major work was carried out. For starters all the foam was removed and discarded. Some of this had already started to deteriorate. I replaced with with BAF wadding. The crossover is a simple ahffair with one CAp value 4.7mic (this was sourced from Ansar model SPA with sliver lead outs) and qty 2 inductors 0.8mh and 2.2mh (both made by Volt) . These were clamped to a new board and then hard wired together using silver solder. The wiring was all replaced with 20awg 99.9(7n) grade solid silver in teflon coated sleeve. I fitted deadsheet to the sides (1/2" thick covering approx 50% of the area of each panel). The end result was such a measurable improvement. The guy that bought then could not believe the level of detail that they revealed from a recording that he brought with him. The cost of all the bits was about £75 (excluding the wire which was another £30). If you ever seriously contemplate buying any speaker up to £750 ($1500) make these upgrades and you'll save yourself £600! Better still see if you can get hold of a 2nd pair of the bass units and do away with the abr. Taking it a step further you could always choose Hovland Musicap instead of the Ansar for a marginally sweeter treble. I have also modded to 15 b replacing the HF1300 tweeter with a Morel MDT30. Whereas it fits the rebate you still need to shave widen the hole by 12mm because of the bigger diameter magnet. This unit integrates very well and is a signifcant upgrade (mo opinion anyway) as it provides better focus and is more effortless in its rendition. Personally I prefer the older 15 models which had a superior bass unit.
Regards
Tim
Hi Brett
Well I started of by replacing those dreadful binding posts that were so prone to becoming loose. The posts were replaced with quality gold plated posts which accepted bare wire, banana and spade connectors. Interally was where the major work was carried out. For starters all the foam was removed and discarded. Some of this had already started to deteriorate. I replaced with with BAF wadding. The crossover is a simple ahffair with one CAp value 4.7mic (this was sourced from Ansar model SPA with sliver lead outs) and qty 2 inductors 0.8mh and 2.2mh (both made by Volt) . These were clamped to a new board and then hard wired together using silver solder. The wiring was all replaced with 20awg 99.9(7n) grade solid silver in teflon coated sleeve. I fitted deadsheet to the sides (1/2" thick covering approx 50% of the area of each panel). The end result was such a measurable improvement. The guy that bought then could not believe the level of detail that they revealed from a recording that he brought with him. The cost of all the bits was about £75 (excluding the wire which was another £30). If you ever seriously contemplate buying any speaker up to £750 ($1500) make these upgrades and you'll save yourself £600! Better still see if you can get hold of a 2nd pair of the bass units and do away with the abr. Taking it a step further you could always choose Hovland Musicap instead of the Ansar for a marginally sweeter treble. I have also modded to 15 b replacing the HF1300 tweeter with a Morel MDT30. Whereas it fits the rebate you still need to shave widen the hole by 12mm because of the bigger diameter magnet. This unit integrates very well and is a signifcant upgrade (mo opinion anyway) as it provides better focus and is more effortless in its rendition. Personally I prefer the older 15 models which had a superior bass unit.
Regards
Tim
Attachments
Very Excited
This looks like a very exciting summer project, as I have been lusting after a new pair of speakers for ages! I have got my dad's old pair of Celestion ditton 15 speakers that I've already had a play around with. I rewired them completely, and changed the capacitors. Made a nice difference in sound. I have never been very happy with the funny looking tweeters, they just don't sound right. I am very intrigued by your modifications. Will the Morel MDT30 work well with the older 15 model? You said something about prefering the bass unit of the 15 over that of the 15XR. How have you got the second bass unit wired up? I might find a cheap pair of 15's on the net and get the bass units out of them!!
Failing this, should I just buy a pair of ditton 44's?
I'm quite a newbie to this game, but can learn pretty quick.
Cheers!
Ben
This looks like a very exciting summer project, as I have been lusting after a new pair of speakers for ages! I have got my dad's old pair of Celestion ditton 15 speakers that I've already had a play around with. I rewired them completely, and changed the capacitors. Made a nice difference in sound. I have never been very happy with the funny looking tweeters, they just don't sound right. I am very intrigued by your modifications. Will the Morel MDT30 work well with the older 15 model? You said something about prefering the bass unit of the 15 over that of the 15XR. How have you got the second bass unit wired up? I might find a cheap pair of 15's on the net and get the bass units out of them!!
Failing this, should I just buy a pair of ditton 44's?
I'm quite a newbie to this game, but can learn pretty quick.
Cheers!
Ben
Not quite sure what you mean. If you want the original ditton 15xr tweeters, have a look on ebay, the model number is HF1300. If you want a modern replacement for the HF1300 tweeters get a set of Morel MDT-30 tweeters from www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk . You can also get replacement capacitors from the same site. Read previous posts in this thread for the exact values.
I assume the Morels gave you top that was missing with the HF1300s? I always considered the HF1300 more a midrange driver... but even the low end ones in the Ditton 15 have some value on eBay.
The 3 pair of 15s i've had cost me less than you spent on mods (did that include the tweeters?)
Does anyone know if the replacement butterflies for the 1300 are available (i've a dead pair of the higher end ones that i'm sure someone with IMFs would like)
dave
The 3 pair of 15s i've had cost me less than you spent on mods (did that include the tweeters?)
Does anyone know if the replacement butterflies for the 1300 are available (i've a dead pair of the higher end ones that i'm sure someone with IMFs would like)
dave
Not done the modifications yet, so don't know! I can only assume that the morels will give the result of an extended top-end.
Don't suppose you know of a cheap supplier of the Morels?? How about decent inductors/capacitors???
I am quite intrigued by your phase plugs. Do you reckon I could add a set into my ditton 15 bass drivers? Have you tried this??
You should try these mods in your ditton 15's, though without the Morels, and see what you think. Even just re-wiring mine made a decent difference. Try the double bass driver mod, and remove the ABR.
Ben
Don't suppose you know of a cheap supplier of the Morels?? How about decent inductors/capacitors???
I am quite intrigued by your phase plugs. Do you reckon I could add a set into my ditton 15 bass drivers? Have you tried this??
You should try these mods in your ditton 15's, though without the Morels, and see what you think. Even just re-wiring mine made a decent difference. Try the double bass driver mod, and remove the ABR.
Ben
Ok would like to add to this old thread . I have had a pair of Ditton 15's in the cupboard for about 10 years .When I first plugged them in I thought one of the tweeters was blown so they went into storage. Recently I looked up the mods' above a thought Ok so out they came. Well one cab rated 6.2 Ohms and the other was 30 ohm at the binding posts on first inspection.
After taking the units apart and cleaning all connections ,changing the wadding and adding some 5mm felt type carpet to the inner walls they came back to life. Oh boy did they come back to life ,the high resistance was caused by some oxidation on the binding posts- internal wire connection. The damping and use of stands has totally eliminated the wooly bass effect that they were known for.
This though highlighted a lift in frequency at the crossover point. As an immediate solution rather than changing any of the crossover components I have at this time resorted to using a graphic equalizer.
Ok now this is were the difference was made, at first I used a Marants amp and the top sounded a bit raw and the lows somewhat weak. So I then switched to a HH VX-150 Mos-Fet Pro amp and used a 31 band equalizer (studio gear ). With the graphic I introduced a reduction at 2.5K to compensate for the crossover and a gentle lift below 350Hz and above 3.5KHz , the amp being compleatly flat in its reproduction. Once the input levels to the amp are correctly matched with the EQ preamp the result has been absolutely outstanding even at low'ish power. The detail and musicality produced means that they will now become near field monitors in my studio and I like to think of them as baby 66'. If you wish to monitor at reasonably low levels in a smallish room bearing in mind I only payed £10 for these speakers well they are absolutely superb . I terms of replacing them I would be looking at well over £500.oo to get the same detail and quality.
So there you go food for thought,if you have a pair of these in the cupboard or are contemplating buying a secondhand pair, they go for around £100 these days,I say keep it British and do it!!.
Hope this helps .
After taking the units apart and cleaning all connections ,changing the wadding and adding some 5mm felt type carpet to the inner walls they came back to life. Oh boy did they come back to life ,the high resistance was caused by some oxidation on the binding posts- internal wire connection. The damping and use of stands has totally eliminated the wooly bass effect that they were known for.
This though highlighted a lift in frequency at the crossover point. As an immediate solution rather than changing any of the crossover components I have at this time resorted to using a graphic equalizer.
Ok now this is were the difference was made, at first I used a Marants amp and the top sounded a bit raw and the lows somewhat weak. So I then switched to a HH VX-150 Mos-Fet Pro amp and used a 31 band equalizer (studio gear ). With the graphic I introduced a reduction at 2.5K to compensate for the crossover and a gentle lift below 350Hz and above 3.5KHz , the amp being compleatly flat in its reproduction. Once the input levels to the amp are correctly matched with the EQ preamp the result has been absolutely outstanding even at low'ish power. The detail and musicality produced means that they will now become near field monitors in my studio and I like to think of them as baby 66'. If you wish to monitor at reasonably low levels in a smallish room bearing in mind I only payed £10 for these speakers well they are absolutely superb . I terms of replacing them I would be looking at well over £500.oo to get the same detail and quality.
So there you go food for thought,if you have a pair of these in the cupboard or are contemplating buying a secondhand pair, they go for around £100 these days,I say keep it British and do it!!.
Hope this helps .
Celestion HF1300
Coles make a replacement for the HF1300 tweeter.
It looks very much the same as, perhaps identical.
I think it likely that Coles bought the design and perhaps the manufacturing equipment from Celestion years ago.
They also have a soft dome tweeter which can be got to work as replacement for other of the old Celestion tweeters.
I think they do this because various other manufacturers used Celestion drivers, including Spendor and Rogers,
and people want replacement tweeters for those old models now.
Go to ---> Magnetman
and look around the web-site.
Coles make a replacement for the HF1300 tweeter.
It looks very much the same as, perhaps identical.
I think it likely that Coles bought the design and perhaps the manufacturing equipment from Celestion years ago.
They also have a soft dome tweeter which can be got to work as replacement for other of the old Celestion tweeters.
I think they do this because various other manufacturers used Celestion drivers, including Spendor and Rogers,
and people want replacement tweeters for those old models now.
Go to ---> Magnetman
and look around the web-site.
Last edited:
why ?
Hi stevieg,
why do you think that ?
Yes, Asians do like vintage British loudspeakers, including Celestions,
however that is several Asian nations, not only Vietnam ...
but perhaps you intended this in humour ... being that the Vietnamese may be only able to afford the lesser wanted models !
Hi stevieg,
why do you think that ?
Yes, Asians do like vintage British loudspeakers, including Celestions,
however that is several Asian nations, not only Vietnam ...
but perhaps you intended this in humour ... being that the Vietnamese may be only able to afford the lesser wanted models !
Ditton 15: Electronic Crossover
What is the actual electronic cross-over of a Ditton 15? I will be installing Morel MDT-29s to replace the old HF 1300s. The Morels go down to 1800hz, so I want to make sure that the speakers actually cross-over (electronically) at 1800 hz, before I install the Morels.
DittonBoy
What is the actual electronic cross-over of a Ditton 15? I will be installing Morel MDT-29s to replace the old HF 1300s. The Morels go down to 1800hz, so I want to make sure that the speakers actually cross-over (electronically) at 1800 hz, before I install the Morels.
DittonBoy
The Ditton 15 was fitted with the HF1300 tweeter and may well crossover quite low, maybe 2kHz on a two element crossover. The Ditton 15XR has the later more conventional HF1000 tweeter and probably crosses over at 3kHz on a 3 or 6 element network. Since Celestion fitted a variety of networks, you'd better whip the bass out and look at it. Also consider size and of replacement tweeter if you are dealing with a rebate in the baffle, and efficiency. Morel MDT-29 or CAT 298 come in 94mm and 104mm sizes AFAIK.
Happy to help if I know some crossover layout details, especially values. It's often possible to adjust a resistor to match up a replacement.
Ditton 15: Electronic Crossover
These Morel MDT29s have an overall diameter of 3and1/16". A perfect match on the outside... might have to shave the inside hole a tadd to get them in... I'll let you know when they arrive... yes, I thought the 1300s were only actually rated at 3000 hz on the low end... the new ones are also rated at 89 decibels, so they should be a close match to the woofer, gain-wise... otherwise, a 10kohm resistor shorted behind the tweeter should fix that, right? An electronic crossover of 2,000hz would be the ideal scenario for both drivers, no matter what year they were made... my only concern is whether or not the capacitors in a 35 year-old cross-over may have degenerated a tadd and if so, who cares as long as they are not letting through a signal that is lover than 1800hz to those tweeters, which are rated at over 80 watts and will probably never be driven harder than 15 watts RMS anyway? Ditton says the 15s (old ones) cross over at 2400hz (8" Woofer, higher midrange capability) ... just wasn't sure if they were actually doing that (or at 2000) electronically, to the tweeter... hard to find specs like that on the net... may have to pull those woofers anyway to install some fresh, thicker wiring to the woofers... thanks for the insight re pulling and looking vs. replacing and leaving the rest alone.... the "if it works, leave it alone" philosophy has much gravity, but my replacing the tweeters (which by the way wound up costing me almost what I paid for the used speakers) says, "but what if we could take something that is already exceptional and update it a tadd, so that it works a little better?" I'll keep you posted and let you know what I find....
DittonFan
These Morel MDT29s have an overall diameter of 3and1/16". A perfect match on the outside... might have to shave the inside hole a tadd to get them in... I'll let you know when they arrive... yes, I thought the 1300s were only actually rated at 3000 hz on the low end... the new ones are also rated at 89 decibels, so they should be a close match to the woofer, gain-wise... otherwise, a 10kohm resistor shorted behind the tweeter should fix that, right? An electronic crossover of 2,000hz would be the ideal scenario for both drivers, no matter what year they were made... my only concern is whether or not the capacitors in a 35 year-old cross-over may have degenerated a tadd and if so, who cares as long as they are not letting through a signal that is lover than 1800hz to those tweeters, which are rated at over 80 watts and will probably never be driven harder than 15 watts RMS anyway? Ditton says the 15s (old ones) cross over at 2400hz (8" Woofer, higher midrange capability) ... just wasn't sure if they were actually doing that (or at 2000) electronically, to the tweeter... hard to find specs like that on the net... may have to pull those woofers anyway to install some fresh, thicker wiring to the woofers... thanks for the insight re pulling and looking vs. replacing and leaving the rest alone.... the "if it works, leave it alone" philosophy has much gravity, but my replacing the tweeters (which by the way wound up costing me almost what I paid for the used speakers) says, "but what if we could take something that is already exceptional and update it a tadd, so that it works a little better?" I'll keep you posted and let you know what I find....
DittonFan
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