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Old 20th December 2004, 08:21 PM   #1
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Default Bose PAS like

Something like the Bose PAS is for me.
http://www.bose.com/controller;jsess...Y5RrnsqGvrvyfX!-1885516663!-916327495?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/musicians/solutions/index.jsp&linksource=content_fls_solutions&pageNam e=/musicians/index.jsp
I tried it, and itís cool. Maybe thereís something wrong with my hearing but it sounds great. And itís very popular, seems to be selling well.

But itís too expensive.

So Iím thinking tossing together a line array with a sub.
Madisound has these which look lightweight and up to the task for the array.
http://www.madisound.com/imgs/NS3-194-8E.pdf
$10.50 ea.

WinISD I can get 99SPl with an array of these.
I would skip the tapering as I donít think Bose does.
Iíve ruled out NSBís over weight and portability.

So now the Bass. It looks like Bose is a bandpass of sorts. Itís small and compact. Light but not what I would consider lightweight. Iíd like to get 40hz out and keep the weight down. Bandpass or small horn? Something compatible with the array. What do you all recommend? Is this feasible?

Keep in mind here, the reference here is Bose PAS, not your typical sound reinforcement system. I do expect to equalize it to get it to sound right as I expect Bose builds in their equalization.

Thanks,
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Old 20th December 2004, 08:30 PM   #2
Grahamt is offline Grahamt  Canada
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Linky no worky.

If you want to build a line array there are many out there. Check out some of the arrays at www.creativesound.ca and Jim Griffin (sorry if I spelled that wrong Jim) who frequents this board wrote the book on line arrays.

As for a sub, the bigger the better. How big of a sub can you build?

Are you using this stuff for PA or home use?
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Old 20th December 2004, 08:54 PM   #3
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Yes - thanks - I read Jim Griffin paper, JBL, and Meyers sound one. All good, but some conflicting information. Bottomline is the Bose PAS seems to work well, so somehow line arrays are good for this.

I'd want to be around 30lb on weight for the sub, so maybe this helps indiciate size.

I'd be using it for Pro-Sound use, but as Bose has it "Personal Amplification System" and not for a whole band - just me.

Sorry - I don't know how to get the link to work, but google on:
Cylindrical site:www.bose.com

Will take you to them.
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Old 20th December 2004, 11:57 PM   #4
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If your interested in those drivers, keep an eye on this thread:

Two new widerange drivers at madisound

Mark has done some testing of them already.
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Old 22nd December 2004, 03:42 AM   #5
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Raintalk, I wonder if you are setting your sights a little low by using Bose as a benchmark.

Bose don't use very good drivers, but they charge a premium for what you could build very cheaply. An array of the Tangband W3-871 would be an easy choice, crossed to some subs at say 200 Hz. The 871 only needs a notch filter to get a nice smooth response, no tweeter needed. Bose would not need to much eq if they used decent drivers. Notice how their brochures are loaded with pretty pictures, but no real information? There is good reason - their stuff isn't up to scratch when you look at actual measurements.

Bill Fitzmaurice who frequents this forum sells kits suitable for PA use and I would trust his stuff over Bose.
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Old 22nd December 2004, 07:41 AM   #6
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Maybe, but itís all very subjective. The Bose are pretty popular and portable. Youíll be seeing them in more and more clubs. And Iím sure many would say they could build speakers cheaper that sounded better but the Bose somehow fits a need. If I can put together a speaker system that sounds as good as a Bose with better portability, for a fraction of the price then Iíll be happy.

Looks like itíll take a couple of bandpass boxes to match the array close enough. Or maybe a Bill Fitmaurice tuba Ė but then tubaís are pretty bulky.

The W3-871ís would be too bulky for my use. And I donít see them available anywhere.

I see PE has some Auraís for a darn good price that might be good enough with a tweeter added.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...9-015&scqty=18
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Old 22nd December 2004, 08:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Maybe, but itís all very subjective.
I'd say talk to some seasoned PA guys and they will give you more than a maybe!

Buyouts are always good - just check the response is reasonably smooth. Quite a few on this forum do line arrays with cheap fullrangers like those you linked.

High up on my list would be the Adire HE10 and HE12 kits. They are good down to 50 Hz, although I'd add a sub below that. They are not too big, anything smaller won't get much output or efficiency.

The Tuba isn't really that big, and its super cheap. The Autotuba is so small its ok for home use. Cheap way to get decent output out of something fairly compact.
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Old 22nd December 2004, 09:20 AM   #8
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I had a look at the bose website, I assume you are talking about those tiny line arrays, right?

They look slim, but they occupy the same space as much larger speakers due to the base. They get wide dispersion due to the small drivers and the use of an array.

Here's what I'd do for a DIY version (which should be quite a bit better then theirs for less cost).

I think it would make more sense to use slightly bigger drivers like the TB 871 and then put that on top of a compact sub. Say get a Tuba 18 and make it the base for your array. The TB drivers will get down to 200 Hz and only need a simple notch filter to get them nice and smooth.

Granted it won't look quite as slim, but it will probably in fact occupy about the same space. If you really want it to look tiny and even slimmer, then there is a smaller version of the 871. Here's an example

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 22nd December 2004, 09:26 AM   #9
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Old 22nd December 2004, 10:06 AM   #10
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The base on that thing is very wide ... the input panel is 25" wide so it must be about 28" or more for the actual base! Occupies probably the same floorspace as a Tuba 30! ... then the bass module is also required, which uses only 2 x 6.5" woofers. They are probably high excursion drivers with 1" excursion which Bose typically use in their HT subs (supplied by TC sounds.) However, the 8" driver used in the Autotuba moves about the same amount of air but probably has another 10 db of efficiency and output due to horn loading.
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