Sorry, I don't think it's a good idea to use first order crossovers with the Dayton RS series. It might work if you push the crossover VERY low- like below 1khz... but with any aluminum cone driver, they hard part is the crossover. It's got to be a steep slope- the only way you could get away with a shallower slope would be if you could very accurately measure the breakup frequencies and filter them out.
Right now I think that the "correct" way to use this particular driver is going to be something like a 4th order crossover at 2khz to a Seas 27TDCF... but I haven't tried it yet.
Right now I think that the "correct" way to use this particular driver is going to be something like a 4th order crossover at 2khz to a Seas 27TDCF... but I haven't tried it yet.
This driver is not suited for first order. The cone breakup needs a steep slope or a notch filter. I have a published design for this driver using the Neo3 PDR. Measurements are included.
http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/DaytonRS7/Cryolite.htm
http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/DaytonRS7/Cryolite.htm
joe carrow said:
Absolutely.
Though the MTMs I have use a pair of RS150's and the 27TDFC.
28L tuned to 42hz (ported).One heck of a good setup on the cheap! Maybe $130 in parts including enclosure, each. The RS180's and the 27TDFC should be a top notch match. Had I not been building for a HT where dimension limitations exist, I very probably would have gone that route.
C
cjd said:
Absolutely.
Though the MTMs I have use a pair of RS150's and the 27TDFC.
One heck of a good setup on the cheap! Maybe $130 in parts including enclosure, each. The RS180's and the 27TDFC should be a top notch match. Had I not been building for a HT where dimension limitations exist, I very probably would have gone that route.
C
I'm so glad to hear it! Does the Seas tweeter play very loud crossed at 2khz? My last project used a Morel MDT20 crossed first order around 4.5 khz, and that thing went as loud as I cared to listen.
I run out of amp before I run out of driver, and my ears aren't particularly happy at that point. I haven't pushed it to see where the limits are, but it's not the tweeter in my setup if there's any deep bass around. And even then, my ears are usually complaining before anything else.
I'm still in the crossover tweaking stage, so I have no specific plans to be shared at the moment. Generically, it looks like it models to a 4th order butterworth acoustic slope at about 2400hz (that's what it worked out to be - I only give myself a target to start with and then tweak till things start working well and not worry if it wanders a bit). Simple 3rd order electric circuits with zobel on the mids, and RL on the tweeter (probably only a resistor is needed but these tweets do pick up a few dB in the last octave).
C
I haven't pushed it to see where the limits are, but it's not the tweeter in my setup if there's any deep bass around. And even then, my ears are usually complaining before anything else.I'm still in the crossover tweaking stage, so I have no specific plans to be shared at the moment. Generically, it looks like it models to a 4th order butterworth acoustic slope at about 2400hz (that's what it worked out to be - I only give myself a target to start with and then tweak till things start working well and not worry if it wanders a bit). Simple 3rd order electric circuits with zobel on the mids, and RL on the tweeter (probably only a resistor is needed but these tweets do pick up a few dB in the last octave).
C
Hi Chris,
What do you mean by your ears not being happy with the sound at high volumes? Is there some kind of distortion or do the speakers really play that loud? (I'm thinking about a possible TDFC upgrade for my own speakers and I'd like to get a handle on its dynamic performance...)
Thanks
Michael P
What do you mean by your ears not being happy with the sound at high volumes? Is there some kind of distortion or do the speakers really play that loud? (I'm thinking about a possible TDFC upgrade for my own speakers and I'd like to get a handle on its dynamic performance...)
Thanks
Michael P
Yes, that loud. I don't really like my music blaring loud anyhow, usually. Sometimes I do. Pines of Rome, just HAS to be loud. But no complaints on that, only just the very start of the instruments blurring (which is partly the recording - made in the 1960's), partly just that it's really tough to do a full orchestra on just a couple drivers when the orchestra decides to unleash everything it's got. I've never heard a 2-way handle this properly, and this is unquestionably one of the best I *have* heard. Some of jkrutke's were also very good, but I didn't hear this particular recording. Ironically, he uses this same tweeter...
FWIW, in an MTM the RS150's run out of excursion if there's any good bass before the tweeter runs out of steam. Though crossing it lower (as recommended by many with the Dayton RS series) would alter that somewhat. And the RS180's have a bit more travel to play with. I did hear a pair of TBFC/G's bottom, crossed at 1800hz to a single RS150. Normalized playback at 88dB on pink noise (200hz-10kHz I think it was) but just one piece. Not sure what caused it. Different driver but I think(?) similar motor. I would say that for normal playback, you'll not run into trouble.
C
I don't really like my music blaring loud anyhow, usually. Sometimes I do. Pines of Rome, just HAS to be loud. But no complaints on that, only just the very start of the instruments blurring (which is partly the recording - made in the 1960's), partly just that it's really tough to do a full orchestra on just a couple drivers when the orchestra decides to unleash everything it's got. I've never heard a 2-way handle this properly, and this is unquestionably one of the best I *have* heard. Some of jkrutke's were also very good, but I didn't hear this particular recording. Ironically, he uses this same tweeter...FWIW, in an MTM the RS150's run out of excursion if there's any good bass before the tweeter runs out of steam. Though crossing it lower (as recommended by many with the Dayton RS series) would alter that somewhat. And the RS180's have a bit more travel to play with. I did hear a pair of TBFC/G's bottom, crossed at 1800hz to a single RS150. Normalized playback at 88dB on pink noise (200hz-10kHz I think it was) but just one piece. Not sure what caused it. Different driver but I think(?) similar motor. I would say that for normal playback, you'll not run into trouble.
C
Im not %100 sure but i think one of the things you have to be warry of is that the cone breakup higher up will sometimes cause harmonic distortions a couple of octaves lower which the notch filter will not have any effect on.
Unfortunately I cant remember where I saw this info so take it with a grain of salt.
At any rate it seems that the conventional wizdom is to xo at least two octaves below the breakup.
dvdwmth said:
Yes, but I'll restate it a bit more clearly with an example.
Say I'm testing a speaker. I drive it with a 2k tone for example. Where are the 2nd, 3rd, 4rth harmonic distortion products. Well, they are at 4k, 6k, 8k...
It seems obvious, but now stop and think a bit. If the driver has a large peak at 6k, well, this is where the 3rd order HD product is FROM A 2K STIMULUS. Sorry to yell, but this is the key.
If you cross at above 2k, say 2.5k, even though you're crossing well before 6k, you will still excite the driver's 6k peak with the 3rd order product of your 2k stimulus. You have to cross below 2k to prevent this.
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