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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 16th December 2004, 08:24 PM   #21
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Default Don't sweat the tweeters

I think you will be ok with the apex tweeters. I built a similar line array with them and I do not notice any comb filtering. I went with a three way using exceedingly cheap driver from Parts express. They have 12 @ 6", 36@2" and 60 tweeters per side. I was so happy with how they sounded ( I use a behringer ultradrive for active x-over) that I know want to replace the cheap 6 inchers but I am having a hard time finding drivers to drop in the cabinets due to the odd size and shape of the baskets and the fact that I spaced them as close as I could. It looks like you will have no problems if you needed to do the same. (lucky dog !) Nice cabinets. Good luck.

This is only my second post. I am a little hesitant to post because I am embarrassed by how little I know. I have learned a lot by reading from you all. I will try to post a picture of my speakers. Please let me know what you think and any suggestions for improvement.
Thanks to all
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Old 16th December 2004, 09:08 PM   #22
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Those speakers look great. Keep posting and contributing. It's a TINY hobby and we need input from everybody.
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Old 16th December 2004, 10:52 PM   #23
Coulomb is offline Coulomb  England
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Hey Mr. Nasty, great looking speakers.

Regards

Anthony
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Old 16th December 2004, 11:04 PM   #24
TheoM is offline TheoM  United States
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Default Understandable

You are right - I am assuming something, and that is that these are dome tweeters of some sort. The basic issue is that the wavelengths up high are an inch or two - and its pretty hard to find a tweeter that will be mounted with an inch between the centers of two adjacent tweeters. Even the really small tweeters would be a little over two inches. I guess you could use piezo buttons, but they cross so high that you'd have to use really small woofers in order to get THEIR spacing right - but you've already made that decision. That's why almost every line array I've seen (except the "pro" arrays which use horns cleavery) use ribbons OR a single tweeter. It might be cool to use one really good horn.

Best deal in that would be to buy renkus heinz microtraps or eaw JF stuff on ebay and take the horns out of it - and the crossover while you're at it. .
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Old 17th December 2004, 12:10 AM   #25
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http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=275-030&DID=7 it looks like you could modify this to get the spacing right at or less that 1''
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Old 17th December 2004, 12:31 AM   #26
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Well with the Apex tweeters I can get them pretty close. I am also going to mount them from the back and them router out each hole to give a small horn effect. Not really sure what this will do to the sound but with tweeters that are that cheap I am not sure it can hurt to much.

After I get them all done I will do some measurements and see how it turns out. If things are to bad, to my ear mainly, I can always rethink the design. These are more of a test bed them a finally design. With the shop we have at work redone things is not that big of a deal.
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Old 17th December 2004, 12:35 AM   #27
TheoM is offline TheoM  United States
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Default yes indeed

That would do it - with the bonus that they look like they would go lower than the "3500" specified based on the response graph. . When you have a lot of tweeters its safe to take them a bit lower, generally. You might want to cross at 2500. This has the added advantage that the acoustic "natural" rolloff will assist your crossover, and you might be able to get away with a lower order crossover for the hight pass.

Its still too far apart for 15k - but up there a) you won't hear much, b) you are not overlapping with the woofer at all, and c) that stuff is bouncing off everything (even the box) so its all out of phase anyway esp. in a line array. Good solution.
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Old 17th December 2004, 12:38 AM   #28
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Thanks. I think they will sound pretty good for the little money I will have into them and they will serve the main prop. perfectly
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Old 17th December 2004, 03:53 AM   #29
TheoM is offline TheoM  United States
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Default apex

I was talking about the ones Chris8sirhC suggested. Meanwhile I looked at the Apex tweeters. Cool, but....

F=MV squared. A teeny magnet like that can not hope to give you good transients in the high end. It will "smear". Yes you might have 50 of them (and the spacing will be reasonable) but adding them up will not give you crisp clean highs. The force required to move a cone at the velocity required for the high hz is substantial so you need either very low mass (like a ribbon), or high Force - like a big magnet/current. I will admit however, that having like 70 tweeters has massive cool factor. .

I think you will be better off with less of the ones from Parts express suggested by Chris8sirhC.

Also, I don't know about the horn-like effect. I had a guitar amp that used that method (rear mounting and using the baffle hole like a little horn lens) and it sounded odd. It might tighten the pattern but it might do something very strange to the frequency response. I don' know enough about horns to anticipate the effect but its an interesting question. Any horn people out there?
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Old 17th December 2004, 08:51 AM   #30
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Default apex tweets

The apex tweets when put horizontaly give a ctc spacing of just under 1.5 inches. I think that worked out to about 18 kHz before the first theoretical comb lines. (I'm going on memory here)
Obviously these are not super quality tweets but the price was right. Also I only use them from about 6500 Hz up. They were surprizingly smooth in a line.

I am looking forward to using some ribbons one day if the wallet fairy visits.

Also, Thanks to all for the encouragement. My next plan is to try some OB NSB's .
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