some proac info. look at this everyone

[lt cdr data]

Proac are a little mean on what they divulge, so I thought I would share a little of my hard earned knowledge, and give a kind of database of proac info for fans and curios
.
for some great proac klones check this out.

http://audioclone.free.fr/scanspeak.html

Older proacs are divided into 3 ranges,

1/the tablette

2/studio

3/ response

tablette 3, 50, 2000 inc. signatures use seas woofers and seas or scanspeak tweeters...2010 on signatures.

further info added: tablette ref. 8 still using seas bass unit, but treble is now changed to vifa tweeter, these appear to be oem units.

xover is still the std proac seas type, 2nd order on bass, with rlc across woofer, between the inductor and cap.
cabinets do not feel as substantial, terminals are cheaper too, but it is true to say after listening to the 3s, 50s, and ref. 8s, that in every incarnation, they have subsequently sounded more open, better bass and clearer mid, so it would appear they get better with every new model, and its not hype.

studio 1, 100, 200 use scanspeak 8543 paper woofers and seas tweeters
studio 125 are like the tablette 2000, and use seas woofer
studio 150 use seas p14 woofers, and scanspeak 2008 tweeter.

studio 200 and 250 use the 8543, like the studio 1, in the 200 they are in a dapplito and the 250 there are 2 of them, not sure if a 2 or 2 and a half way.

response 1s use seas t14 woofer, scanspeak 2010 tweeter
1sc uses a different woofer.
reponse 2.5, well you know!!
reponse 3 and 3.5 both scanspeak polypropylene woofers, scanspeak 9000 series tweeters

apparently, the r3 cones were made by rogers, and were changed for the 3.5. They are plastic coned.

response 3.8 uses 2x 8535 woofers, 9300 tweeter
response 5 2x8535, atc mid, 2010 tweeter
response 4 atc 9 inch short voice coil woofers, atc mid, scanspeak tweeter.

response 4 crossover is 2nd order bass, 2nd order on the mid(lower and upper) and 2 order on the tweeter, a departure from the normal proac xover.

response d150 and later proacs are now using volt woofers, and some using scanspeak tweeters.

You see a lot of the drive units are similar, the favourites are seas woofers, usually the plastic polyproylene cone: t14, p14 or p17....in the seas woofers, the letter is the cone material, t for TPX a kind of plastic, p for polypropylene, L for aluminium, and the number is the diameter in cm,

and the tweeters usually scanspeak 2008 or 2010 tweeters, and there is really little distinction between the ranges, the tablette are the small ones, some studios are uprated tablettes:
the studio 150 is like the tablette 50, studio 125 is like the tablette 2000.

Studio 200 are the same as the studio 1 or 100 just another drive unit and bigger cabinet.

response d15 is like the tablette 2000 signature: same drive units, bigger cabinet.

response 2.5 is like the studio 125 only different drivers which is the floorstander version of the tablette 2000

Proac seem to favour a d'appolito configuration which is used on studio 150, 200, response 3, 3.5, and the latest responses.

crossovers: the standard proac crossover is 2nd order in the bass, 3 order in the tweeter, with one attenuation resistor as the first component in the tweeter. No L-pads here.

They are in phase, but the components are the opposite way around, ie in the negative path rather than the positive.

With the 2.5, the bass is 3rd order,a change for proac with a 47 ohm resistor across the first inductor.

The 3.8 crossover is 2nd order on the bass unit, at 300 hz, and the rest I think is identical to the 2.5 ie 3rd order midbass, 3rd order tweeter.

With the scanspeak woofers, no resonant filter is used, but with seas, a series RLC circuit in that order R, then iron core L, then C is used, ACROSS the woofer. The bass signal first passes through the series inductor, THEN comes the RLC, then the parallel capacitor...check this out for a typical proac crossover:

http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html

The cabinets are lined with bitumen and acoustic foam, terminals are michell rhodium plate.

with the crosovers, the FINESt components refers to air coiled inductors, solen capacitors, and ceramic resistors. Pretty standard, and some standard multilstrand cable, a la qed or bandridge.

latest response d100 uses Volt 2500 type woofers, atc mids.


series RLC on the seas woofers comes after the bass inductor but before the parallel capacitor.

Values are typically: 4.7 ohms for the tweeter resistor, 5uf cap, choke, 6.8uf cap

woofer: choke, 10 ohm resistor, choke, 20-40uf cap in parallel with woofer, 5uf cap parallel with woofer.


that's about it, good luck....data by name, data by nature.

all this has been written in the belief proac are mean with their specs they divulge, and it ought to be in the public domain.
Its a shameful practise when you see the specs. some makers give, especially in the pro audio domain.

IMO there is no need for it, as proac use custom drive units largely, so no one can reproduce the designs at home.

Also, I consider Mr proac a minor genius, he manages to produce excellent speakers, and interestingly they all sound similar, despite having differing drive units, I supsect its a lot in the xover design, which are frighteningly similar on all the speakers. Minor tweaks are obviously the way he designs.

Speaker cabinets are made by the castle factory, and I have heard the xover boards are by bk electronics, who used to make the amplifiers for rel subwoofers.

[tktran]

I couldn't find information on the Response 3.8 on your website...
do you have any more information?

Page 41 of Troels Gravesen's 2.5 Clone paper reveals why ProAc speakers tend to sound similar despite using different drivers. The tonal balance is slightly U-shaped, with a "persistent increase in bass and treble response as seen from the ProAc speakers combined with generally recessed midrange."

It's a very engaging kind of sound and makes for rather exciting listening (or first impressions)

I once compared side by side a pair of Vandersteen 1C speakers to a pair of ProAc Studio 125. After about 15 mins with the 125, the 1C sounded rather boring in comparison, even though its tonal balance was probably more linear.

[lt cdr data]

hmm, its not my website, I was a student and enthusiast of proac, having owned and dissected many and learned about them.

I thought I would share a lot of what I learned.

the 3.8s are a 2 and a half way.

They are like the 2.5s, but with an extra 8535 woofer, and a bigger scanspeak tweeter.

The bass rolls off around 300 hz with a 2nd order filter I think. may be 3rd, can't remember.

then the rest is similar to the 2.5 ie 3rd order bass/mid to 3rd order tweeter.

Proac have an extremely and addictive, musical sound, slightly bright, but they are just so right. Others may be as good or better, but proacs do have some magic to them.

[falvespinto]

Hi there, all of you proAc fans... I wasn´t, but became a recent convert when looking for a nice, not too expensive and wattage demanding children-proof floostander...
This is my first post so bear with me ... Ok, so what am I looking for?
Has anyone taken a peek inside th Studio 140s? I was a bit surprised-not very good components, no bracing whatsoever, ans that box plays along , believe me..
So I am thinking of upgrading.
First I will deal with the crossover. Does anybody have the values for the chokes( they have nothing written on and I don´t have the equipment or knowledge to measure them)?
The tweeter uses a single cap , I think to be a bipolar electrolytic,from Expotus with 6,8K100V written on it. Is this a 6,8 milifarads cap 100v rated? The tweeter is the weakest point in my view - not very transparent or extended, and hardens up when pushed - It is soo much worse than my dad´s very old and inexpensive wharfedale 505.2 that it is embarassing.
~So I am looking for a lush but very transparent and extended treble. What do you reccomend I substitute this cap for, and where can I get it?? If it is a 6800 milifarad cap I will probably have to use some kind of bypassing, some I would appreciate your advice on that too.
I will make other upgrades too, and have altered the bass alignment a bit, wich worked excellent for my smalish room and might be of interest to you.
I will post the crossover scheme and a crossover picture, or you can contact me at fmapinto@gmail.com.
Thanks for your help

[lt cdr data]

hi yes I am afraid proac do use cheapish components.

I doubt very much there is one tweeter capacitor, only in a couple of models its 2nd order, its probably 3rd order, with 2 series caps.

I wouldn't mod them, you will destroy the value.

you can get a cheap inductance meter and measure the chokes. be accurate enough.

proac have barely ever done anything new, its the same old crossover with a few little tweaks, and the same with the drive units, same formula, little tweak each time, and seas drivers. I think one xover is just plugged in and the values altered a little.

to think I used to see stewart tyler as a genius.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got the xover from wharfedale, kef or celestion or someone else.

but it works, and they do have some magical properties if they work, trouble is, they are a bit bloomy in the bass, recessed mid and squeaky at the top.

sadly the info manuals are insulting, no info at all, if you are paying that money, you deserve info, just look at a professional audio company, some of these hifi companies treat buyers with contempt, it shows they aren't totally pro in attitude.

Mr tyler also uses slightly modded drivers, so I don't know what he's worried about people knowing, pros could easily discover the 'secrets', and amatuers can't 'clone' non standard drive units.

[the apprentice]

With due respect, why on earth should a manuafacturer give people like you the free licence to rip off their products and devalue their work?

The new Proac boards are an opaque triple layer sandwich construction so people are going to have even more fun trying to work out what Stewart has been up to.

[zdr]

I don't know how they make those speakers - but they sound so much better than what they should according to components inside. I have built ProAc Clone hoping to upgrade from Studio 125, and it did not come even close. Studios kicked Clone's a** in every respect, and I had top notch components in Clones. This was just a beginning in series of DIY disappointments, which ended with Gainclone. I am now seriously thinking in buying Studio 140 without even auditioning them, if I could only get rid of Clones somehow, they are almost impossible to sell.

[mgm31]

Hi all,

I got a Studio 130 pair of speakers.

Plan to work on the filter as I discover the quite low quality of the components. The capacitors are a sort of unknown MKT (?) brand.

For Self values (and capacitors < 10uF), you can use Speaker Workshop if you have a PC and a quite good sound card. I compare a 1Khz Speaker Workshop measure with a professional LCR meter = less than 3% of error !

If any interessted, I can post the schematic of the filter with the values.
I plan to build a external filter and not destroy the original one.

[phase_accurate]

For Self values (and capacitors < 10uF),

Hint: Self = French for coil, and not Douglas Self !!!

Regards

Charles

[ducchau68]

Hi all,

Greeting to you all.

Your posts regarding the Proac product line has really enlighten me. Especially, it's good to know about the good quality of Proac sound, in addition with the bad. I am also very curious with upgrading an old Proac SuperTower that I have. I also found out that most of the stuff inside that they used were cheap (e.g. cable is thin Radio Shack kind, the parts were not so impressive. For example the tweeters that they used were a cheap MB Quartz metal dome tweeter that are no longer made. I found the sound of the Proac to be very typical , which is great bass, bright sound (very bright sound if not paired carefully with warm equipment -- personal experience). But in my case, the original SuperTower tend to have a very harsh & loud sound to the voice,which could lead to very fatiguing sound after long listening session. Is there anyone out there that have an idea to which soft domw tweeter that I could use to replace the MB Quartz to tame the brightness. I've been trying to find all over the web, but the only the only clue I've got was in later model MKII, they used Seas driver.

If anyone could tell me the exact model of Seas driver, I would really appreciate it. Or any idea to changing the CO, adding an L-pad???

Thanks ahead of time.