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Old 20th April 2014, 09:11 PM   #21
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With a 3 kHz crossover between the 7" midrange drivers and HF ribbons, there will be substantial lobing in the vertical and horizontal plane. I can only assume this is an intentional design feature on Bill Duddleston's part ... a way of narrowing directivity, perhaps?

Legacy Whisper specifications

A more detailed application appears in the steerable array of Legacy theater loudspeakers.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 20th April 2014 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 21st April 2014, 03:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by studiotech View Post
Does anyone out there know what Bill Dudleston is doing with the bass alignment of the Whisper? It is a dipole, but what is he achieving with the second woofer behing the first?

Also, his woofers look more like the pro sound type without much excursion capability, but I keep reading on here that one must have high excursion to successfully have an open baffle. I have heard the Wisher twice and really liked the sound in the bass region.

Greg
When I measured the distortion on my dipoles I was surprised how quickly it got out of control. So doubling the number of cones will lower your distortion in a hurry.

This would make a neat cardioid if you made the back driver sealed and the front driver dipole. (*does* require EQ though.)
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Old 22nd April 2014, 06:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post
With a 3 kHz crossover between the 7" midrange drivers and HF ribbons, there will be substantial lobing in the vertical and horizontal plane. I can only assume this is an intentional design feature on Bill Duddleston's part ... a way of narrowing directivity, perhaps?
How do you know the xo, I can't find that anywhere? By the way their Aeris looks more potent as a dipole to me. One review says that it beats Whisper...

All this double/compound dipole bass discussion is just vague babble, unless somobody shows actual measurements. There are so many issues with dipoles in practice, that theoretization easily gets messed. When we say same or inveter plarity, we must notice that some speaers have the second driver turned over (reverse+reverse is onward) Most of the stuff at Legacy website is just marketing hype. They surely have some good ideas and heavy technology (Xilica dsp), but also many obvious flaws eg. baffle width preventing dipole radiation above some 600Hz for Whisper.

There is another thread somewhere about compound dipole bass array - and it really works. But in a very narrow band. Actually it is Olsen's 3rd order gradient radiation. It also has 12dB/oct bass roll-off instead of 6dB/oct for 2nd order dipole. A very spesific system.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 02:43 PM   #24
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Juha, check page 28 in the pdf eg 0, 3k, 10k

Funny it should read 32, 3k and 10k or should it read 32Hz, 1kHz, 3kHz and 10kHz?

The super tweeter looks exactly like the Airbourne RT-4001 with a larger 4" ribbon mated to it and crossed lower @1kHz. Mid crossed at 3kHz. ???
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Old 23rd April 2014, 06:34 PM   #25
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Legacy Whisper owner's manual http://www.legacyaudio.com/images/up...al_1_28_14.pdf

Crossovers 200Hz, 3kHz, 10kHz

My my, but now I undertand why Bill Dudleston does not want to show polar responses! The manual gives good advice of how to set the processor as home tuning. I am happy to see Whisper uses B&O ICEpower amps and recommends REW
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Old 24th April 2014, 10:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
Legacy Whisper owner's manual http://www.legacyaudio.com/images/up...al_1_28_14.pdf

Crossovers 200Hz, 3kHz, 10kHz

My my, but now I understand why Bill Duddleston does not want to show polar responses!
The polar response at 3 kHz must be ... well, interesting, with the midrange drivers at least 7" center-to-center in the lateral plane, and I'm guessing 16" or more in the vertical plane. No amount of DSP processing is going to correct the multiple lobes in both planes.

Widely spaced drivers has been a Legacy design feature for at least twenty years, so Mr. Duddleston must like what it does to the sound. When a key design feature persists for that long, I can only assume it's a desired feature, and not an accident.

Same for Wilson, really. Even though the Focal inverted dome tweeter had many weak points ... short excursion, multiple in-band high-Q resonances, etc. ... Wilson stayed with the tweeter for more than fifteen years. There must have been something about it that Mr. Wilson liked.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 24th April 2014 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 24th April 2014, 01:19 PM   #27
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Some manufacturers want their products to carry a "sound signature" There are many ways to do that... But perhaps Mr. Wilson just overestimated the sales forecast of his speakers when he placed an order of good number of tweeters to Focal?
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Old 24th April 2014, 07:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post

Same for Wilson, really. Even though the Focal inverted dome tweeter had many weak points ... short excursion, multiple in-band high-Q resonances, etc. ... Wilson stayed with the tweeter for more than fifteen years. There must have been something about it that Mr. Wilson liked.


At least as far as the Watt/Puppy was concerned, it wasn't a bad solution - basically 3-9 kHz of a foil-diaphragm design (be it fiberglass or titanium) with its flat-damped surround which allows for good detail (..if at the expense of an increased resonant behavior - that's averaged-out in the plots below).

The real limitation has always been that basic "2-way" design regarding polar behavior and the mid-woofer's that he used, always with a corresponding loss in pressure due to narrowing directivity from the mid-woofer off-axis.

From the 3 to the 8:

Wilson WATT Series 3-Puppy 2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy 7 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com


Really, the sound of the speaker is almost entirely the mid-woofer and how it reacted to the various changes to that "truncated pyramid" design.




Here is an older variant of the Whisper:

Legacy Audio Whisper loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Pity there is no lateral response plot.


..like the Watt/Puppy though, the defining characteristic of this design will be those mid-woofers and their reaction to the baffle. In particular you'll hear a lot of "baffle" with this design, which would make it a good candidate for that thread on speakers that sound "BIG".
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Old 24th April 2014, 07:53 PM   #29
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Old Whisper's 0-30¤ averaged response shows lack of power 2-4kHz and boosted highs - exactly or even worse that was expected by layout and xo (last link of Scott)

Sure this speaker has a sound signature!
Click the image to open in full size.

And room response alike (Actually this speaker sounds like it looks - huge bass and powerful mids, sharp highs! Very clever voicing, just what people generally want from a large speaker, makes marketing staff happy Listening comments of Stereophile support this)
Click the image to open in full size.

Ps. If someone here at diyadio would present something like this now, he/she would be laughed out! Poor us!
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Last edited by Juhazi; 24th April 2014 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 24th April 2014, 08:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post

Ps. If someone here at diyadio would present something like this now, he/she would be laughed out! Poor us!
Actually, at the listening position (and general distance that was the listening position in these measurements), and as a range of axial averages - I doubt that many well-designed speakers (from their meter-design perspective) would fair much better. Ironically, it would start to become more about how much the room could ADD to spl at higher freq.s to compensate for the various conditions causing pressure loss.

Top-octave(s) loss is pretty common for point-source designs over increasing distance (..and increased with pressure loss off-axis due to source-diameter).

I wouldn't be at all surprised if upper-freq. waveguide designs have a similar midrange prominence when measured under a similar condition.
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Last edited by ScottG; 24th April 2014 at 08:16 PM.
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