Why the emphasis on flat speaker response? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 18th November 2004, 08:05 PM   #11
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How was the room tweaked? I bet it was just an overly bright room unless your low frequency hearing is what is damaged.
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Old 18th November 2004, 10:01 PM   #12
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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The speaker can not be flat and have boosted treeble at the same time my dear friend.

/Peter
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Old 18th November 2004, 10:11 PM   #13
cjd is offline cjd  United States
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Bah.

I bet the speakers and room and all that were measured with pink noise or warble tones or something.

Were you listening to pink noise when your ears wanted to crawl into a corner and hide? Or were you perhaps listening to some type of music from some source which I might guess in this case was a CD (perhaps in the "Rock" genre? - certainly, probably "modern" music of some type) through all solid state components. Many CD's are very poorly mastered and are excessively hot - accurate speakers will reproduce this very faithfully! All solid state does nothing to help this fact.

C
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Old 18th November 2004, 11:12 PM   #14
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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Quote:
I haven't had a hearing test in a number of years. It would be interesting to see the curve.
As would I! I am a young guy, but still curious how I'd do. I did convince the Occupational Health department here to let me try their test, but its intended for something else, and only goes up to 16khz. So I know I can hear up to there, but then I already knew that since the flyback transformer 'whine' from old TVs drivers me nuts. I'd LOVE to have a fletcher-munson type curve of my own hearing plotted.

BTW, if you look at some older Yamaha recievers, they had a variable loudness feature that would apply a boost to the lows and highs very similar to the fletcher-munson curve. This boost was variable, almost nil at high volume levels, and greatly attenuated when the volume was low. I have one of these at home, and it works quite well IMO, if a bit exaggerated. I always thought such a setup would work very well if properly implemented.
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Old 18th November 2004, 11:39 PM   #15
RJ is offline RJ  United States
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I think he's talking about this situation as described by Debertin:

"Overwhelming Highs. Of course, there was a lot of emphasis on projects that when tested using computer listening software produced as close as possible to a flat response curve. This leads to a lot of designs whereby the overall frequency balance to my ears is tilted upwards. These speakers may be what the computer finds as flat response, but to my ears they often sounded overly bright and irritatingly harsh. These are the kinds of speaker that sound realistic for ten minutes of listening. After that they are simply grating and irritating. My ears were physically hurting for two days after doing these auditions. The question I kept asking myself is how could I possibly enjoy listening to such speakers over the long term in my home. Along with this seemed to be a desire on the part of builders to not provide any high frequency level control to compensate for what are obvious differences in various rooms’ ability to absorb sound. I find this curious at best"

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http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/Debertin/spbuild.htm
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Old 19th November 2004, 03:54 AM   #16
madinoz is offline madinoz  Australia
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The Vifa D25 tweeter measured reasonably flat and in the systems I have designed, no matter how much I attenuated the tweeter in relation to the woofer, the treble sounded harsh and irritating to my ears.
As alluded to before, a flat measurement can hide a qualitative deficiency in a driver which the ear recognises only too quickly.
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Old 19th November 2004, 07:23 AM   #17
wimms is offline wimms  Estonia
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Problem with projects like that is that the flat response is raised as a goal in itself no matter what. Typically brute force is used to make the response flat - resonances notched, dips raised, etc.

The measurements are done with slow sweep of pure sinewave.
What this doesn't show is dynamic distortions, intermodulations, garbage and ringing that gets additionally produced.

Thats the only way I can see why flat speakers sound awful.

Check this: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/mid_dist.htm
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Old 19th November 2004, 12:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by wimms
Problem with projects like that is that the flat response is raised as a goal in itself no matter what. Typically brute force is used to make the response flat - resonances notched, dips raised, etc.

The measurements are done with slow sweep of pure sinewave.
What this doesn't show is dynamic distortions, intermodulations, garbage and ringing that gets additionally produced.

Thats the only way I can see why flat speakers sound awful.

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This last statement just isn't true. Flat response ONLY means equal SPL output form equal power input accross the frequency spectrum. It does not necessarily indicate sound quality.

A perfect example:
I use some cheap but highly efficient Pyle bullet tweeters as super tweets in my line arrays. These things are god awful out of the box, just ear bleedingly harsh at any volume. I just stuff a few pieces of foam rubber down in the throat and all of the harshness disappears and the detail comes out. They're quite nice after tweaking with very little loss of sensitivity. It's a night and day difference in sound quality with negligble effect on the Frequency Response.

Get your sound quality first, then try to flatten response to the extent you want, but without sacrificing SQ. If a flat FR is your only consideration, you're doomed from the start or simply lucky.
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Old 19th November 2004, 12:57 PM   #19
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I suppose the other two important quantitative measurements you need to look at other than frequency response are linear and non-linear distortion. FR tells you how accurate your speakers are at reproducing frequecies for a particular voltage input with respect to SPL, but it doesn't tell you anything about how much the speaker "smears" certain frequencies (that is, continues to resonant even after the input is taken away) or what other frequencies are produced when you attempt to play a particular frequency. All of these are measures of accuracy and none of them by themselves can give you a good idea for how a speaker sounds.
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Old 19th November 2004, 01:03 PM   #20
wimms is offline wimms  Estonia
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
This last statement just isn't true. Flat response ONLY means equal SPL output form equal power input accross the frequency spectrum. It does not necessarily indicate sound quality.

Get your sound quality first, then try to flatten response to the extent you want, but without sacrificing SQ. If a flat FR is your only consideration, you're doomed from the start or simply lucky.
That was precisely point of my post. I'm confused how you got its meaning reversed.
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