Help with NSB Line Array issue

[cytokine]

The official word from management is that the lines have to go. Sure I can put them in the garage, but I don't listen to music in the garage at night. I sit in my chair in the living room.

I've informed the management that they'll remain in place until after Christmas and I'm holding out until I finish building dual monoblock gainclones and a Foreplay pre-amp. She gagged on her Cheerios when I told her this but the telltale smoke didn't come out of her ears so I think I'm OK until then.

I'm completely hooked on the wide soundstage and overall presentation of a line array. I especially like the sound that their open baffle configuration imparts.

As I see it I have two options. I can build another set of lines that have a much narrower profile and a smaller footprint or I can build something like a Linkwitz Orion. I'm completely sold on the open baffle configuration. So I guess the open baffle is the higher priority than the line configuration if I can get a wide soundstage and that dipole sound.

The Orion is bloody expensive. The alternative line would be fairly cheap and I could use a nice piece of lumber for the baffle and make a grill cover to make it less conspicuous. My idea would be to make the front baffle minimally wide, say 5". I would use 16 NSBs as I did before with a single really nice and efficient tweeter smack in the middle at seated listening height.

What do you all think? I could probably go $35-50/each for the perfect tweeter if it will do the job in the middle.

Any thoughts, advice, commiseration would be appreciated.

[x. onasis]

I don't think the WAF is going to be guaranteed with the Orions either. (Excuse me for saying they aren't the most attractive piece of living room furniture a lady would select.)

I haven't noticed a picture posted of your LA's, but I think you might have said they're like 7' tall and 2'wide....pretty large.

Anyway, here's an idea. If you could make them narrower by cutting the sides and turning them into wings, then getting her to help you pick a fabric to curtain them in a way she finds acceptable, you might be able to buy the time it takes to grow a loving familiarity with the sound.

I bought a couple bolts of black grill fabric and just draped them over my LA's and they show promise of interesting decorating ideas. We may not find help from "the queer eye for the straight guy" but any interest from the wife has to be the better first choice. Just be sure to bring your checkbook to the fabric store.

[cytokine]

I think the Orions are a hell of a lot more WAF positive than my lines. Yes you remember correctly, I have not posted pictures because my audio projects take up all the spare cash that I used to use to develop film. I'm working on it though.

My lines have a 1 foot front baffle with 45 degree wings that are 2 inches wide at the top and 10 inches wide at the bottom. The base is about 2 feet by 2 feet square. Huge footprint.

My thinking was to put these in the garage or sell them to a fraternity. The second iteration would then be a 5 inch wide baffle with a side piece of the same width that would hide the drivers on the side you see them from when you enter the living room. The other side would be open and they would back up against the wall. If I were to make these out of a nice piece of wood and stain them, the addition of a decent looking grill cover might let them stand on either side of the front window right up against the wall. I would lose a lot of the dipole effect, but perhaps not all of it.

Anyone want to comment on the kind of tweeter I might look for to fit that middle tweeter configuration? I would probably only run it over 10 kHz as I run my Onkyo tweeter line with a 2 uF cap and the NSBs are full range. It would be more like a super tweeter.

I think your suggestion of getting the Mrs. involved is an excellent strategy and might work in many cases. Mrs. kine however is tone deaf and just wants her living room back. She's not interested and doesn't know bupkis about decorating either. I did the decor in the whole house. Picked the colors and the fabric for the curtains etc. I guess I didn't do such a hot job in designing the look of the arrays. What are you going to do with MDF? I had some black paint. Black paint is good for speakers. Unless they're 7 feet tall and 2 feet wide in a 10 x 25 living room with an 8 foot ceiling.

[Bill Fitzpatrick]

Why not add a room to the house and call it your own?

[cytokine]

Originally posted by Bill Fitzpatrick
Why not add a room to the house and call it your own?

My first thought is '******* wise guy...'. Of course my next thought is, 'I wonder if I could extend the sunroom into the back yard...'. We all think alike here don't we?

The internet is a bad thing. Ultimately all you have to do is type in some search paramaters and you can instantly find a support group for whatever marriage-damaging obsession you happen to participate in.

What about a tweeter?

[cjd]

Eh.

I'd involve her in conversations about what is important to you and to her before you even start looking for what to do. The good news is, it may be an easy task to find something that looks better now.

You can also offer some reassurance that you're just learning right now, so you're not putting as much effort into looks, etc. Though that may not help.

Open baffle with good response isn't going to be cheap any way you look at it. Getting the low frequencies just takes a LOT of driver surface area. A hybrid may get you a balance of all the issues at hand.

But, I would first find out what is acceptable, counter with your goals and why it's important, and sort out some kind of agreement on what kind of footprint, look, etc. you get to work with.

I have seen some stunningly built speakers that look just wonderful - but some folks just don't want *anything* of the sort in the room. Until you know if your only route is some B*se noisemakers or what. . .

C

[rcavictim]

I am placing an order right now for a pair of Selenium ST-324 super tweeters, PN 264-360 from Parts Express for trials in my line arrays. I searched long and hard for a single supertweeter that was economical with good HF response, low harmonic distortion and very high efficiency for this purpose and this is one of the final candidates I came up with. The projection pattern looks like an acceptable match to the array as well. At just $22 each they look like a bargain.

Here is the link: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=264-360

[cytokine]

Originally posted by cjd
Eh.

I'd involve her in conversations about what is important to you and to her before you even start looking for what to do. The good news is, it may be an easy task to find something that looks better now.

You can also offer some reassurance that you're just learning right now, so you're not putting as much effort into looks, etc. Though that may not help.

But, I would first find out what is acceptable, counter with your goals and why it's important, and sort out some kind of agreement on what kind of footprint, look, etc. you get to work with.

C

Dude;

The frau and I have been at this for nigh on twenty years. We're on the same page 99.9% of the time. "Involving her in a conversation..." is for newlyweds and amateurs. We've been married long enough for me to know that if I were to "...offer some reassurance..." she'd just roll her eyes and go back to what she was doing.

The third paragraph I quoted above is probably the route I'll take. I'll tell her what is acceptable and if the the dishes start flying I'll know that there may need to be some additional negotiation.

Nobody want's to talk tweeters do they?

[x. onasis]

LOL...after 20 years you need advice? You'll get lots here but you better not take any of it. I'm surprised no one's asked if you cook too. And maybe if you've got a boat and motor.

I'm using one of these and it sounds fine. Perhaps not quite the perfect efficiency.

This one might be better to play with (even has a dip at 7K)

I also have some TM025C7's with no faceplates, so they're only about 1 3/8" wide. Lemme see if I can find some info.

Edit: http://www.me-au.com/tm025c7.pdf

[cjd]

heh.

be that way if you want.

tweeters, er... that's a lot of sensitivity you need out of a single tweeter. 96-98dB. And that's pretty much Pro territory where I have no experience (and perhaps most folks looking at NSBs have little? Not sure, just a thought).

Have you peeked at the NaO? Some discussions here on that, touted as a "cheaper alternative to the Orion" of sorts.

Why not develop something brand new to suit your situation? That's what I'll be working on. Just because it's more fun that way.

C