another proac thread

kmj · 26th October 2004, 05:10 PM

Hi, i'm planning on building the clones of proac responce 2.5 and i have searched and read....and read.....

since there are quite a few discussions on the crossover with a lot of different opinions i have ended up a bit confused so i wondered if you guys can rectify some things...
whitch XO do you recommend up to this date, after testing and evaluations? budget is a factor, parts can later be upgraded.

parts used:
Scan-Speak 18W/8535
Scan-Speak D2010/8513

1) i read Troels version 6.2 which uses ferritcored inductors in some
places. Since im trying to keep a low budget i can't afford high-valued, low resistance aircored inductorcoils so that one seened lika a good thing. any comments about this perticular design??

2) when choosing coils, its specified to choose coils with resistance lower than 0,2ohms....how much leeway is there? can one with 0,25ohms be used? if so, which impact does this have?

3) on version 6,2 one of the coils are specified to 10mH and 1,3 ohm. what kind of coil is this, can only find coils with much lower resistance and WAY more expensive.

4) if using Troels design, which is the better, the version2 at the beginning or the 6,2 later? can you use ferritcored coils in the version2?

5) if using version 2 with the filter, can i still mount the XO at the bottom as shown in Troels paper or does it need to be close to the woofer?

thanks for reading this:
KMJ

Al.M · 27th October 2004, 05:03 AM

Since you are limited on budget and options, looks like the original website design is the better choice. Most of your questions are in the FAQs section and some in the archives of this forum.

budwiser · 27th October 2004, 03:48 PM

I asked Troel a similar question, and he had me use the xover that is posted on the diy proac clone webpage. I went to crossover and at the bottom of that page click on the word here. This will give you a diagram of the xover.

Pete

tktran · 27th October 2004, 04:30 PM

Q1,3,4.5
The V6.2 crossover is now replaced by the one pointed out by Pete. Troels haas mentioned that he really should update his clone PDF paper to note this. The *final* and recommended 8535/8513 crossover is:

2. DCR of the inductor in series with woofer will affect crossover filter transfer function. And total series DCR to the woofer will affect sensitivity. Hence given the choice between ferrite cores with low DCR and air cores with higher DCR I would choose the ferrite to stay close to the recommend values. I recall someone reporting audible improvements going from eg. 0.8DCR air core to 0.2 DCR ferrite, but I would not be concerned about small (0.1ohm) differences.

kmj · 27th October 2004, 06:29 PM

thanks everyone.
one last thing....Condensors.
There are these insanely expensive Audyne (or similar) for aprox 50-60 USD for one 10uF.
Will they really contribute so much as to justifie the price
when you can buy, say a Mcap Q4 3.30UF 400V for about 5USD?

budwiser · 27th October 2004, 09:29 PM

I used Solen and Aeon caps.

electropt · 28th October 2004, 01:46 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally posted by kmj
when you can buy, say a Mcap Q4 3.30UF 400V for about 5USD?

You can try to get them from here

And can also get the inductors and the resistors. Just need a credit card. I'm a happy costumer

Oh, the SCR are just like the Solen ones and way cheaper...

Cheers

kmj · 28th October 2004, 07:39 AM

For you guys in europe, here's another one.
http://www.intertechnik.de/
And if you buy your elements from www.Audiocomponents.nl you can buy filterparts trough them via intertechnik, then you get a 30% discound on the filterparts (30% of the webprice).
just send a mail to audiocomponents and ask them how they want the order formulated.

I like intertechnic since all values are present, like the resistance in ferritcoils.

sorry, th price of 5usd was to high....should be 2.3euros

kmj · 29th October 2004, 07:52 AM

Electropt:
does the site you linked refer "micro" as "m" instead of "u"or do they just have much larger values?
Ex:
0.68mfd SCR(Reference #scr2)
400v SCR Polypropelene capacitor
Size: 10 dia x 20mm long.
Price: £1.02 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%)

0,68mfd= 0,68 millifarads= 680 microfarads. ?

just to be sure.

electropt · 29th October 2004, 07:53 PM

Hi,

All the ratings are in microfarads, so you should interpret the "m" as "u" (micro).
For example "0.68mfd SCR" is suposed to be 0.68uF or 680nF.

Cheers

26th October 2004, 05:10 PM	#1
kmj diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Falkenberg	another proac thread Hi, i'm planning on building the clones of proac responce 2.5 and i have searched and read....and read..... since there are quite a few discussions on the crossover with a lot of different opinions i have ended up a bit confused so i wondered if you guys can rectify some things... whitch XO do you recommend up to this date, after testing and evaluations? budget is a factor, parts can later be upgraded. parts used: Scan-Speak 18W/8535 Scan-Speak D2010/8513 1) i read Troels version 6.2 which uses ferritcored inductors in some places. Since im trying to keep a low budget i can't afford high-valued, low resistance aircored inductorcoils so that one seened lika a good thing. any comments about this perticular design?? 2) when choosing coils, its specified to choose coils with resistance lower than 0,2ohms....how much leeway is there? can one with 0,25ohms be used? if so, which impact does this have? 3) on version 6,2 one of the coils are specified to 10mH and 1,3 ohm. what kind of coil is this, can only find coils with much lower resistance and WAY more expensive. 4) if using Troels design, which is the better, the version2 at the beginning or the 6,2 later? can you use ferritcored coils in the version2? 5) if using version 2 with the filter, can i still mount the XO at the bottom as shown in Troels paper or does it need to be close to the woofer? thanks for reading this: KMJ

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27th October 2004, 05:03 AM	#2
Al.M diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Australia	Since you are limited on budget and options, looks like the original website design is the better choice. Most of your questions are in the FAQs section and some in the archives of this forum.

27th October 2004, 03:48 PM	#3
budwiser diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greenwood, IN	I asked Troel a similar question, and he had me use the xover that is posted on the diy proac clone webpage. I went to crossover and at the bottom of that page click on the word here. This will give you a diagram of the xover. Pete

27th October 2004, 04:30 PM	#4
tktran Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth	Q1,3,4.5 The V6.2 crossover is now replaced by the one pointed out by Pete. Troels haas mentioned that he really should update his clone PDF paper to note this. The final and recommended 8535/8513 crossover is: 2. DCR of the inductor in series with woofer will affect crossover filter transfer function. And total series DCR to the woofer will affect sensitivity. Hence given the choice between ferrite cores with low DCR and air cores with higher DCR I would choose the ferrite to stay close to the recommend values. I recall someone reporting audible improvements going from eg. 0.8DCR air core to 0.2 DCR ferrite, but I would not be concerned about small (0.1ohm) differences.

27th October 2004, 06:29 PM	#5
kmj diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Falkenberg	thanks everyone. one last thing....Condensors. There are these insanely expensive Audyne (or similar) for aprox 50-60 USD for one 10uF. Will they really contribute so much as to justifie the price when you can buy, say a Mcap Q4 3.30UF 400V for about 5USD?

27th October 2004, 09:29 PM	#6
budwiser diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greenwood, IN	I used Solen and Aeon caps.

28th October 2004, 07:39 AM	#8
kmj diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Falkenberg	For you guys in europe, here's another one. http://www.intertechnik.de/ And if you buy your elements from www.Audiocomponents.nl you can buy filterparts trough them via intertechnik, then you get a 30% discound on the filterparts (30% of the webprice). just send a mail to audiocomponents and ask them how they want the order formulated. I like intertechnic since all values are present, like the resistance in ferritcoils. sorry, th price of 5usd was to high....should be 2.3euros

29th October 2004, 07:52 AM	#9
kmj diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Falkenberg	Electropt: does the site you linked refer "micro" as "m" instead of "u"or do they just have much larger values? Ex: 0.68mfd SCR(Reference #scr2) 400v SCR Polypropelene capacitor Size: 10 dia x 20mm long. Price: £1.02 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%) 0,68mfd= 0,68 millifarads= 680 microfarads. ? just to be sure.

29th October 2004, 07:53 PM	#10
electropt diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lisboa	Hi, All the ratings are in microfarads, so you should interpret the "m" as "u" (micro). For example "0.68mfd SCR" is suposed to be 0.68uF or 680nF. Cheers

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