Slices BIG Home Theater project

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pinkmouse said:
Mrfeedback- maybe you are the one limited education, did your mother never tell you the first rule of social behavior- if you can''t say anything politely, don't say it at all.

Slice may have been young and inexperienced, but he has never been rude, unlike some people posting to this forum...

uhuh cough! splutter! phft! ... you apparently didnt see his first thread. I agree he has come a long way from then but many of us still get the distinct impression that he is only interested in listening to what fits with his ideology and imediately dismisses all other comments ... this is obvious in at least a couple of posts he made earlier in this thread. I've no interest in picking on Slice for being dislexic but it would do him good to start listening to EVERYONE instead of just listening to the comments he essentially wants to hear. That is what education is about and last time I checked, the purpose of this community is to share our collective knowledge so that all of us may advance in this art. We've been doing our part for some time now. It would be nice if Slice started doing a little unbiased listening. He might also find that people ease up off his back at that point.
 
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Joined 2002
AudioFreak-

he is only interested in listening to what fits with his ideology and imediately dismisses all other comments ...

Not that that would apply to anyone else on this forum of course... (ducks)

p.s. how do you get proper quotes in a reply, like your message and not mine?
 
I agree with AudioFreak. Initially, on seeing pinkmouse's post, I replied, but I thought Eric might like to have his own say, and I didn't want it to seem like a 'pile-on', so I deleted it.

The other eason I have not commented on slice's threads, is it seems to me he wants everyone else to do the work for him, even to the point of searching for links, which would show up on the first page of a google search. The only way you learn, is to ask a question, get some answers, try them out for yourself, and come back with more questions that refine what you are trying to do, or tell us why it didn't work, so you can be given other ideas to try. But I don't see that happenning.

I have done a number of high-end HT installs, usually with lower budgets than you have, and so far I see it being a chequebook approach. Throw lots of money at 'brands' and it will be good. No it won't. Specifying, and budgeting for $US12K worth of Brystons is going about it all wrong ime. Acoustics, speakers and room/speaker interface are the issues that need to be solved first, and worry about the amps later.

You also have little experience in designing and building speakers, so to think you can design and build a 5.1 or 7.1 from scratch is a fast path to misery. To design and successfully implement a stereo pair is a task that requres experience, understanding of the fundamentals and at least some basic measurement gear. My advice is to either buy speakers outright, or build <i>exactly</i> known and proven designs, which you've heard somewhere. Once you know what the requirements of the speakers are in the room, you can spec the amps.

Personally, I'd buy a pre-loved set of <a href="http://www.avantgarde-usa.com/">Avantguarde</a> Duos for the mains, Unos for the rears, a Solo for the centre (and sides if you really want them) and a quad of refurbished Dyna Stereo 70's (or HK Citations from Jim McShane) for amps. You now have over $50k change for the video, source and processing etc, and it could be done in a day, and will blow you away compared to any cone and dome speaker system you could build for the same money. Due to their dispersion pattern, a lot easier to integrate into the room too. Add a couple of REL subs, and even if you bought the AGs new, you'd probably have $40K left, and even if you loathed it all, resell it with minumum loss.

If you were asking advice to spend $1k on a system, the value would be in the doing and learning, and even if a total failure, not too expensive. But you are in a league where I'm not even comfortable doing it with someone else's money, and I have nearly 2 decades of construction behind me. Apart from knowing what to specify for gear, and acoustics, it's the detail in the cabling and layout that turn it from something average, into something really good. I learn't from doing 'rescue' jobs, ie fixing up other people's screw-ups.

Slice, please don't hear this as knocking you, I mean it to be constructive. I'd actually rather see you be successful on this, and when you play that first movie for your Dad, he's really impressed and proud.
 
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Hi All, I'm back after a fine weekend with my lady, a long day at the workshop sucessfully willing miracles and keeping owners happy, and come home and my monitor goes splatt - bugger !.
A diagnose session, a forage in the shed for a junked chassis with the the appropriate bits, and an hour and a bit it is back working, and even better focus too - you bewdy.
So now I'm back online and I take a look in my mailbox, I have a look and learn and smile, and then I come to recall these much earlier postings.
Fom An Earlier Thread
Originally posted by mrfeedback
Hey slicemaster101,
Step 1 - read the previous posts PROPERLY - nobody suggested Yorkville amplifiers.
Self powered cabinets were suggested.
Step 2 - Start acknowledging the guys who are posting replies to you.
Step 3 - Act on the suggestions given, and then come back.
Eric.

Response posted by slicemaster101
mrfeedback i realy dont like you......
i gues i must be perfict in every thing i do....god forbid i mis interpit a few sugestions or opinions....
i am trying here and this is all very new grounds to me....
i am trying to lern but it is realy hard....
i am sorry i upset some of you but i am realy nieve when it comes to this stuff.
i hope noone has got the weong idea about me.....if so i am sorry but i will not take full blame for everything......
And then I reread this
Originally posted by slicemaster101
Mr. feedback,
I know misspelling is an irritation. I am not sure what I have misspelled other then pinkmouse. I am sorry if it bothered you but just to let you know, I am dyslexic and I am trying my best. I am sorry that it bothers you so bad but no one else has complained. I would also like to know where else I have spelling errors. When I caught the “pinkmouse error” it was to late to edit. I am sorry.
Note: I get the idea that you don’t like me when you post because you tend to come through as really a mean guy that is bothered by the slightest error. I am sure you are not that type of person and I am sorry this error bothered you so much.

Sorry,
Slice
So, 'slice' (using your real name at the end of your post makes the whole tone friendlier), this is the first time you have apologised to me, and including the earlier posts of yours, I accept gracefully.
So back to recent replies,
pinkmouse said:
Mrfeedback- maybe you are the one limited education, did your mother never tell you the first rule of social behavior- if you can''t say anything politely, don't say it at all.

Slice may have been young and inexperienced, but he has never been rude, unlike some people posting to this forum...
Grammar wrong, facts wrong.
AudioFreak said:
uhuh cough! splutter! phft! ... you apparently didnt see his first thread. I agree he has come a long way from then but many of us still get the distinct impression that he is only interested in listening to what fits with his ideology and imediately dismisses all other comments ... this is obvious in at least a couple of posts he made earlier in this thread. I've no interest in picking on Slice for being dislexic but it would do him good to start listening to EVERYONE instead of just listening to the comments he essentially wants to hear. That is what education is about and last time I checked, the purpose of this community is to share our collective knowledge so that all of us may advance in this art. We've been doing our part for some time now. It would be nice if Slice started doing a little unbiased listening. He might also find that people ease up off his back at that point.
AF, Thank you for backing me up.
Brett said:
I agree with AudioFreak. Initially, on seeing pinkmouse's post, I replied, but I thought Eric might like to have his own say, and I didn't want it to seem like a 'pile-on', so I deleted it.
The other reason I have not commented on slice's threads, is it seems to me he wants everyone else to do the work for him, even to the point of searching for links, which would show up on the first page of a google search. The only way you learn, is to ask a question, get some answers, try them out for yourself, and come back with more questions that refine what you are trying to do, or tell us why it didn't work, so you can be given other ideas to try. But I don't see that happenning.
Slice, please don't hear this as knocking you, I mean it to be constructive. I'd actually rather see you be successful on this, and when you play that first movie for your Dad, he's really impressed and proud.
Brett, thank you also for backing me up .

'S', I think we are all like minded in our thoughts of expectation of success in your project, and we are also saying similar things.
I have had a 2 hour yarn with Brett and he does have very good experience and knowledge, and I suggest that you listen to him intently, and reread, and then reread his post.
Also guys like Dave, many others, and even me.

My suggestions (and some still stand) are still things like -
Consider how much total system power that you really need if you are running reasonably efficient loudspeakers.
Consider things like, most of the time when watching TV or a recording, continuous seriously high SPL is really not needed, nor desired.
Consider that a typical standard TV with inbuilt 5W speakers is often ample in fact.
Consider that say 1500W or so, of good, big, clean playback system total power ought to provide all the level you could ever typically want, and then some.
Like Brett I suggest you can start smaller and build on it, as your audio learning increases, and also that you come to understand your own ears.
Consider also that your dad's (and mum's) ears are older than yours, and will likely enjoy a different sound to the 17yo sound you are at.
Brett is also entirely correct in that the resultant system is very much in the executition, even more so than the equipment, and this is what makes or breaks a system.
If a system can never relax and invigorate you, you come to find that you don't want it anymore, and indeed it can become a nuisance.
You are speaking of spending an extaordinary amount of your dad's money, and I realise that much is devoted to the room and video gear, but the audio section ought not need to be overly costly, if you do it wisely.
You do need to do much looking for and listening to current gear to find the sort of sound that you think your dad likes, then show him, and then you have a common goal to strive for.
Do not expect to understand a fraction of the audio subject without getting out there, and having a good look, listen and learn .
Indeed after 20 yrs, Brett is still learning. :)
'S', if you follow the advice given above, you will be in a much better position to answer most of your questions yourself, and even contribute your own experiences and findings.
So, go to it lad.

Eric.
 
::sorry::

I understand what you are saying and I still would like to say that I am going to have at least three projects before I take this task on. I find it a little low that you would refer back to past posts to show the worst things I said. I am sorry I said them but I cannot get rid of them. I cannot take back the things I said because once they are said they will never be forgotten. I also think that you think I am throwing out every idea I hear. The only ideas I have completely thrown out are a PC for video playback and a Sony DVD player. My reasons are justified and if you would like to know why I have thrown them out I will tell you. First, I do not want to have to wait for a pc to boot up to watch a movie. I think it stupid and a waste of time when there are stand-alone units that can do the job in about 2 seconds. I have nothing against people who use HTPCs but as I said before it is not for me. I respect you opinions about HTPCs but I am not interested due to boot time as well as ease of use. Second, I through out Sony because I have had so many bad experiences with them. This is a personal choice and I am sure that their products have improved but their past products that I have use are a complete turn off. I know that some of you guys feel that I am argent and stupid, but I really am not and I am learning from every post. Brett suggested buying speakers. This would void the whole point of this project. My father is willing to spend the money based on the fact that it will give my older brother, him, and me some thing to do as well as to be proud of building from the ground up. I have decided on BRYSTON based on one of my earlier threads. Many people said that they are the way to go if you have the budget. They have a warrantee that can’t be beat and service / support that seems to be much better then any service / support I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I am not locked into my ideas, and I am not lazy. I have looked for links and I have been very busy with traveling so I have not had the time to look for my self. I am open to any thing and if you would like me to justify why I through out an idea the just say so. I am hear to gain a knowledge of good HiFi components and manufactures. I don’t know if you have caught this but this project will not start for at least two years. I am hear to start getting a feel for high end manufactures and components. If I have offended anyone in this thread or in any past threads I am sorry and I wish I could take those words back, but I cant words can never be erased and forgotten. One can only move on and look forward to the promise of a better future.

Sincerely,
Rand

PS. MR. FEEDBACK I am deeply sorry for saying the things that I did…:(
 
Not to get off topic, but would any of you know of a simple tower speaker kit based on some of the peerless speakers I am planning to use in my HT? I would like to give them a lessen before committing. From what I hear peerless is pretty good and I would like a simple project to give me a chance to see what they sound like, as well as test them for ruggedness. Also a little tidbit question, what is peerless’s sandwich cone made of?

Thanks,
Slice
 
Slice,

I think this is an example of what people are talking about. This is not an attack but a learning experience. You asked two questions. The first about if anyone new of a design that uses the peerless drivers. Assuming you have already done an internet seach, this is a good question. Speaker designs for a specific driver are sometimes hard to find if you don't already look. Here is a link to one example, it doesn't use your exact drivers but it does use drivers from the peerless HDS line just like yours. http://www.io.com/~patman/s1.html

Now what I think is a problem is your second question. In two minutes I went to the peerless web site and found out what the construction of the sandwich cone is. I am just letting you know why a lot of people get frustrated with you. Questions for the forum should usually be things that you need advice from the more experienced or knowledgable. Not things that you just didn't feel like looking up. So in the future my advice to you would be to try to look these things up for yourself before posting to the forum. It will make you seem more intelligent and less lazy, because you will only be asking more meaningful question and you won't appear to be askign others to do your legwork for you.

Here is the logic I followed to find out what the cone was made of in case you did try to find it and are really stumped. Go to the peerless website because that is obviously a good place to get information about thier products. Then since you want information about the construction of the drivers, look both under the product specs, and the link from thier main page about engineering. You will find what you are looking for.

Mark
 
Sorry about the second question. I must have missed it, but I did look. I also want you guys to know that I do usually look on google before I ask. I did go on the peerless website and looked. Next time I will look a little harder before I ask the question.
Note: I did look very hard for a kit before I posted that question.:)

Thanks,
Slice
 
I'm a contractor, and build cinema quality theater rooms, multi plex theaters, etc., etc.

Keep a very open mind !! There are so so many names on the market these days, since THX, surround, and home theater sysyems have taken over. Don't confuse surround sound systems with "theater". Big difference!

100K is enough, PLENTY, to do what you hope. In fact, to spend that much on a room smaller than 1000sf would be silly......and stupid. You would never be able to get full range of use from elements of the sound system.

M&K, JBL Pro, Denon, Yamaha, all make some awesome systems. Many others as well. For customer service and responsibility, stay with the majors that do the research in-house. Many just use anothers data to tweak their stuff. So many systems rely on looks as well. Who cares ! If it works, it works.

The size and shape of the room is as important as the components of the music/theater system. Talk to an accoustical engineer if you want to spend some real money. But don't fool yourself on budget. I can build an estate sized home system for under 30K that can and will blow away many 100K systems.
 
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