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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 15th October 2004, 05:50 AM   #31
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Very nice, Paul!

How I wish I could afford to build one of those
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Old 15th October 2004, 06:26 AM   #32
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Another thing to consider is the power required to each driver, which is affected by the way the bandwidths are divided.

Power bandwidth table

With crossover points of 250 Hz and 2.5k you need approx:

25% of total power to the tweeter
35% mid
40% bass

So to get the equivalent of a 200w amp you need:

50w tweeter
70w mid
80w bass

Considering the losses in a passive system you may in fact only need not much more than half that, or if you had that much power, you could just have a bit more headroom.

In practise the bass needs more power as bass tends to be more dynamic, so this might be more suitable:

20w tweeter (a diy class A amp would work just fine)
40w mid
150w bass

This is assuming the efficiency of the drivers is matched. Now this is where things get more complicated, as if you don't get this right, you can end up changing the crossover points!

I suspect a plate amp would control a woofer like the Koda better than a Rotel receiver, which is also probably lacking in power if you want the Koda to extend below 80 Hz.

I recommend having a look at this ESP article on biamping and browing through other related articles on the site. Very good info!

You may also find active analogue crossovers of interest. You dont' have the same flexibility and power but it is cheaper and many consider it a more transparent option.
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Old 15th October 2004, 02:41 PM   #33
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulspencer
[B]
Now a few different ideas.

TMW + sub

Vifa XT tweeter
CSS - 4.5" widerange driver with XBL2
Adire Koda - (80 - 300 Hz)
Thanks for the great replies! I do like the idea of using as much XBL2 as possible. That 4.5" looks like it would fit the bill. Maybe I'm a sucker, but after reading the material on adire's site they sold me on that technology. I also have to say I like the idea of adding the Koda 8 back into the mix. It seems like it might add some otherwise lacking 'punch' and midbass finesse.

Quote:
This is assuming the efficiency of the drivers is matched. Now this is where things get more complicated, as if you don't get this right, you can end up changing the crossover points!
Would you elaborate on this step? Assuming I use the Behringer, what steps would I need to take to correct for this?

Also, on the link you sent me the man showed and briefly mentioned an attenuator he made for the Behringer's outs. He mentioned that the pro-sound outs were too strong. Do you know if this step is necessary?

Thanks again!
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Old 15th October 2004, 03:08 PM   #34
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Old 15th October 2004, 03:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by kfr01
Thanks for the great replies! I do like the idea of using as much XBL2 as possible. That 4.5" looks like it would fit the bill.
I think it makes sense to have XBL as much as possible. And I would certainly not leave it out of the bass! I think this is where Adire have a very significant "point of difference." Their drivers using XBL for the midrange perform well, but there are already drivers that do this successfully. It appears to be what they have done with subs that is most impressive. If you are going to spend the money on Ultradrive and the amps to go active, then you might as well go with XBL drivers for the bass and sub bass as well.

There are other drivers which show their BL curve - see the Dayton Titanic and DVC on the Parts Express website. It appears to perform quite well although the DVC doesn't look so good if I recall. The Shiva is probably very similar.

If you budget doesn't allow for the Tumult, then a pair of Koda drivers should perform quite well for a while. They would not be that far off the SPL of the Shiva, but they would have lower distortion. If you use them in the way I suggested then the real sense of power and punch would come from the Tumult. I'd call 40 - 60 Hz or so the midbass punch.

In fact, if you are using the Tumult then I would suggest using it as high as you can! (actually my guess is that 60 - 80 Hz would work well) There shear output, authority, performance and low distortion of this driver is amazing. (I have heard it).

Quote:
Originally posted by kfr01
Would you elaborate on this step? Assuming I use the Behringer, what steps would I need to take to correct for this?
This is where I suggest you have a look at the article on bi-amping! Yes it is a long read, but it will explain this. Basically you have to deal with different speaker sensitivities with the gain of the amplifiers. You would think that you could just adjust the gain on the active filters, right? ... but if you do this, the crossover point will also be shifted. It's shown in the article and here is a pic to explain:

Click the image to open in full size.

Suppose you have a bass driver with 2db less sensitivity. You need 2db more gain to that amplifier to compensate for this. Every amp has a gain ... eg. 28db.

If there is another way to deal with this, I'm not aware of it. Perhaps some others can shed some more light on the subject, or suggest some ways of dealing with this.

Quote:
Originally posted by kfr01
Also, on the link you sent me the man showed and briefly mentioned an attenuator he made for the Behringer's outs. He mentioned that the pro-sound outs were too strong. Do you know if this step is necessary?

Thanks again!
I haven't used Ultradrive and Luc knows more about it than I do.
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