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Old 14th October 2004, 09:41 PM   #11
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The XT tweeter has great freq response but the distortion level is a different story. This thread has some comments directly related to that tweeter: Dayton Reference (RS) Aluminum drivers finally out

So maybe push up the crossover freq or look into a different tweeter. And the Extremis probably can go higher than 2K without a problem. I know on the website it talks about using 3.5K.

I have used the 3.5mm jacks on my soundcard and converted it to RCA's to my reciever. I can't say I liked it, because the connection was "iffy" and I had to turn up the receiver higher to match the level of listening compared with my CD player.

Do you have a soundcard now that you want to use or have one picked out?
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:45 PM   #12
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Excellent. THANK YOU for sharing your full opinion with me. I really do appreciate it.

You mentioned that you hoped I wouldn't be using a soundcard solution. Why?

If that doesn't seem reasonable how would you alternatively feel about analog active pro-audio crossovers?

It just really _really_ seems that passive crossover design is like reinventing the wheel. Maybe I just haven't been into diy speaker building long enough to know all the reasons for passive crossovers, but I love my sound quality all-active car audio setup. It was so easy to adjust the crossover points and slope and listen to the results.

Again, thanks for the feedback and opinions.
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:48 PM   #13
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Quote:
Do you have a soundcard now that you want to use or have one picked out?
Thinking about this one:

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9632.htm
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:51 PM   #14
cjd is offline cjd  United States
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Ever measure your car audio setups?

Or is it "dial till it sounds best with the given components"? In which case, it may still sound horrible to many.

Understanding how drivers interact is important. I can give you a flat response that sounds horrible in most listening positions by making a point of using destructive interaction to flatten response where two drivers interact, which might sound OK in one spot, but go off-axis and it'll just be lumpy and horrible sounding.

You are welcome to do what you feel like. If you really only care if YOU like the results, I suppose it matters not. But you're here asking, which means it's not just for you.

C
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:56 PM   #15
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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Are you dead set on using an analog active crossover? Because otherwise you could use your PC as a source, feed the digital out to a behringer 2496 like I posted earlier, and control the 2496 via RS232 interface and LSPcad. I think for a reference system, at the very least you want to use a digital out from your PC, as the analog outs on most soundcards, especially popular ones, measure and sound quite awful.

I am in a similar situation as you, about to build a 'reference' system using my PC as the frontend. Unfortunately I can't afford the setup I just described, or any of what you've described for that matter, so I will likely feed the digital out from my PC to a Griffin powerwave, and build a very simple 2-way speaker for nearfield listening. To keep the crossover design as simple and foolproof as possible (I have no measuring equipment outside a RS SPL meter), I hope to use a widerange driver crossed to either a supertweeter or an active bass section, depending on where the wideband driver I end up with is weakest. This way I can (hopefully) keep the crossover out of the midrange zone, as I understand it is very easy to screw up a crossover at those frequencies. I built my first kit almost 10 years ago, and have been reading about this stuff for over 10, and to be honest I feel like I understand just enough to make a royal mess of a speaker , so I am still very cautious in my approach.
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:57 PM   #16
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke (Uof Iowa)
And the Extremis probably can go higher than 2K without a problem. I know on the website it talks about using 3.5K.
Sure the Extermis can do that, but in a MTM setup, that is not wize. A normal MT with the shiva is very possible though! Besides, I never saw any off axis responses of the Exteremis.

Quote:
Originally posted by kfr01
You mentioned that you hoped I wouldn't be using a soundcard solution. Why?


Well, I meant the soundcard as a X-over. You need a lot of outputs, and massive CPU power (and of cource the right software, which is not very commom). If you have a good card and just use it as a source for the X-over, why not !

Quote:
If that doesn't seem reasonable how would you alternatively feel about analog active pro-audio crossovers?
that would not be much cheaper than a digital X-over I guess. You could of cource make your own analog active X-overs . But still, a digital X-over is much more flexible.

Quote:
It just really _really_ seems that passive crossover design is like reinventing the wheel. Maybe I just haven't been into diy speaker building long enough to know all the reasons for passive crossovers, but I love my sound quality all-active car audio setup. It was so easy to adjust the crossover points and slope and listen to the results.
I can imaging the ease of the active X-overs. But in a 3 of 4-way system it is not just as easy as setting a x-over point ans slope, and listening if it is okay. You have to measure it to get a real reference system. It would be a shame not to do that with such a system.
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Old 14th October 2004, 10:01 PM   #17
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjd
[B]Ever measure your car audio setups? Or is it "dial till it sounds best with the given components"? In which case, it may still sound horrible to many.
I've measured it with TrueRTA and flattened it with 10 bands of parametric eq. I think it sounds decent.

Quote:
Understanding how drivers interact is important. I can give you a flat response that sounds horrible in most listening positions by making a point of using destructive interaction to flatten response where two drivers interact, which might sound OK in one spot, but go off-axis and it'll just be lumpy and horrible sounding.

You are welcome to do what you feel like. If you really only care if YOU like the results, I suppose it matters not. But you're here asking, which means it's not just for you.
Please don't think I'm trying to say that I 'know it all'.. Gosh, far from it. That is WHY I'm here asking questions and trying to learn. Is it stupid to expect to put together a decent system using easily adjustable commercial active or digital (computer) crossovers? What do I need to do to understand how drivers interact as you recommend? :-) Thanks
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Old 14th October 2004, 10:07 PM   #18
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by morbo
[B]Are you dead set on using an analog active crossover? Because otherwise you could use your PC as a source, feed the digital out to a behringer 2496 like I posted earlier, and control the 2496 via RS232 interface and LSPcad.
That sounds like an excellent solution to me. Any drawbacks?

By the way, thanks everyone for the comments and opinions. This has been a very responsive board so far, I'm glad I joined. :-)
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Old 14th October 2004, 10:13 PM   #19
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I'll cast a supporting vote on the 'computer-based dsp crossover' approach. I also use this approach, and think it has a ton of advantages. However, I think what most people here are trying to do is just make it clear that crossover design is for the most part crossover design, and using a computer or other active techniques doesn't really make it 'easier', merely 'different'.

The best advice I can give is to seriously consider buying SoundEasy - it is a full speaker measurement/design package, but also directly supports emulating multi-way crossovers via your soundcard - both traditional analog topologies and linear-phase digital networks. It's not outrageous - $225 or so (you'll also need a measurement mic), and it'll be money well spend in the long run.
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Old 14th October 2004, 10:18 PM   #20
kfr01 is offline kfr01  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4real
Sure the Extermis can do that, but in a MTM setup, that is not wize. A normal MT with the shiva is very possible though! Besides, I never saw any off axis responses of the Exteremis.
Newb question. Why would it be good in a MT setup but not an MTM?

Quote:
it is not just as easy as setting a x-over point ans slope, and listening if it is okay. You have to measure it to get a real reference system. It would be a shame not to do that with such a system. [/B]
What kind of measurement and or other steps do you have to do to correctly setup 3-4 way active xo? I have a behringer ecm8000 mic and truerta software already.

Thanks!
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