Finished my wesnor ellas. - diyAudio
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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 29th September 2004, 05:55 AM   #1
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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Location: Perth
Default Finished my wesnor ellas.

hey fellas,

finally got the tweeter in and so i have the ella's completed apart from veneering it.

thing is i aint utterly blown away with then. Is there something wrong with my ears or sumthing becoz i'm A/Bing it againt's computer speakers (logitech z540) and the ellas are better but not by much?

did i do sumthing wrong.?

Any hints to what i could have possibly bungled would be really handy.

i did use cheaper components for the xover but that shouldn't make a huge difference rite?

I'm also using a old akai amp. would u guys believe that could have something to do with the quality of the signal being fed to my ellas.

thanks for the help in advanced guys.

Regards,

nOOSE
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Old 29th September 2004, 10:41 AM   #2
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Have you double checked all connections?
Tweeter in correct polarity (eg. reversed with woofer from what I gather)
Both speakers sound the same? - play one at a time through the same channel / mono
Is your akai amp a cheap piece of crud? Or is it a solid older model (eg. do you have other quality speakers you can try?)

Really just go through a process of simple elimination / troubleshooting

When you said you made the xovers on the cheap - cheaper higher gauge inductors will have higher resistance which changes the load presented to the xover, which changes the behaviour of the xover, which changes the frequency response etc.... I don't know how significantly, but why would you want to use cheap xover components with quality drivers?

Cheers,
Dave.
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Old 30th September 2004, 08:39 AM   #3
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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I assume the amp i got is a pretty good solid amp since i got a new amp and the quality is at par.

I haven't checked the tweeter bussiness. the tweeter did not have any positive or negative signs on the connectors so i assumed it didnt' matter. I'll try switch it around and see.

Each speaker does sound the same also.

i made the crossovers on the cheap becoz i read that it didn't really matter.

nOOSE
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Old 30th September 2004, 08:53 AM   #4
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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oh NO, tweeter polarity is DEFINITELY important!
In fact all connections are very important, and you should double check before soldering. Make sure both L/R speakers are correct, it's no good having one correct when the other isn't (eg. even if the right speaker is correct, a deep null at crossover point in the L speaker will have audible consequences when both speakers are playing)

I'm a bit over-cautious and measure/listen before getting near that solding iron.

You can get away with using cheaper crossover parts, but you shouldn't sway from the required values or particular types.
This includes the series resistance of inductors. If you are not sure what this means, the easiest way is to stick to the recommended wire gauges when choosing inductors.

The brand or model of particular crossover parts is of less importance than the value and type.

The other thing to note, did you buy these drivers (18W8546K & T25CF001) new?

Unless faults are obvious (ie. strange noises eg. broken voice coil, cosmetic damage), without measuring equipment it's difficult to to confirm whether secondhand drivers are fine or a bit (or a alot ) off spec.
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Old 30th September 2004, 10:53 AM   #5
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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ahh k well then. heheh little i know

i bought the tweeter new but the 8545k is second hand. i don't think there's anythign physically wrong with them though..although how would i be able to check for that.

ok i'll check tonite and make sure all the wires are connected to the right polarity.

Some of the values are not exact like 5 percent off but that's becoz i couldn't find exact values.

I used jaycar xover components. The inductors are 18ga. Perhaps i should change that then?

thanks for your helps guys.


nOOSE
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Old 30th September 2004, 10:56 AM   #6
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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tkran i just noticed ur from perth too

what area perhaps u can come and listen to them :P

nOOSE
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Old 1st October 2004, 01:01 AM   #7
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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nOOSE,

I'm in the Subiaco area.

Currently fairly busy so not at the moment but I may take you up on that offer.

I briefly had a look at the circuit schematic for the Ella.

I agree with Dave Bullet- troubleshoot your way through to make sure you have the right connections. What about correct/close baffle dimensions, box internal volume, woofer and tweeter placement/positioning? Have you got some stuffing in your box? When you add up all the little variations/deviations it can become a bit of a hit-or-miss affair...

Dan Wesnor suggests 14ga (1.6mm) on the first 1.5mH inductor to the woofer and 16ga (1.3mm) everywhere else. Using 18ga (1.0mm) would increase series resistance, which is likely to affect the transfer function of the filter, but shouldn't give you the strange/ unsatisfactory results you are getting.

I understand that for sourcing reasons sometimes it's difficult to to get all suggested parts- Dan Wesnor would be the best person to ask about the effects of your choices? In particular ask if all the small resistor values in series with the inductors are the resistance of the coil itself; actually a real resistor; or the sum of the coil's resistance and another resistor. (eg.: his Sassy/T 3-way schematic shows an example of all 3 cases, but similar explanations are not given for his Ella)

I would sort out the problems, when you're 90% happy with the sound then you should order the suggested type/value of components. For inductors go here:
www.equinoxaudio.com.au or www.soundlabsgroup.com.au

For capacitors I use the SCR (Solen) from www.wescomponents.com or the large yellow polyproylene no-names from www.jaycar.com.au

Building external crossovers are really good for this kind of thing...
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Old 1st October 2004, 04:59 AM   #8
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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cool thanks for all your help.

I checked all the connections last night and i corrected them. They still sound the same however.

Next step will be to upgrade the xover components and measure the exact values.

Another question :P

The tweeter and woofer are rated at 100W and i'm using the DSE A2760 amp which is 80W per channel.

But when i play the speakers relatively loud it sounds like the speakers can not handle the signal even though i'm theoritically putting tru 50W per channel?

Is that normal?

Thanks for answering all my noob questions.


nOOSE
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Old 1st October 2004, 07:43 AM   #9
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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nOOSE,

What area are you in? give me a call: ********. May have some time on weekend to bring LCR meter and check that crossover.

Am familiar with that DSE amp. The gain on the pre-amp is too high IMHO. There seems to be increased distortion once past 9 o'clock.

Speaker sensitivity is low, so it's especially important you bring high quality power to the table. Depending on listening distance and desired SPLs, I suggest 10 to 100W.

A few more things? Speaker positioning in room, room acoustics?
Music?

***Phone number removed at request of poster.
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Old 3rd October 2004, 05:49 AM   #10
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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yeah still not happy with the sound!

Thanks for the support i'll take you up on the offer to come and test them :P.

Pity i didn't check my mail til now. possibly too late to contact you and my mobile decided that it doesn't want to turn on anymore.

i'm in the cannington area. a minute from carousel.

check your mail.

nOOSE
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