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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 3rd October 2004, 10:31 PM   #11
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Actually the DC resistance of inductors does not do as much as people say it does. In all the simulations I run using an inductor or 0.5ohm or 1.5 ohm really doesnt affect the frequency response thru the xover much at all.

The one thing it may do however is alter the bass response of the driver within the cabinet, although this shouldnt be major either.

If you are sure all the connections are correct then I can only assume you dont like the sound.

The scan and seas drivers used are very good quality and demand the best of partnering equipment, think $1000+ for the amp and source. You will not hear what they are capable of if you are lacking in this department.
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Old 4th October 2004, 01:40 AM   #12
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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I like the sound. I just thought it would be better considering how much i've spent on it.

yesterday i tried to unwind an inductor to a lower value since the value was .3mH off because it didn't come in the exact value.

I didn't notice any difference with the closer to spec inductor. In fact i took the inductor right out of the circuit and it sounded different but not noticeably worse or better just louder.

Some of my values for the xover are not exact but that shouldn't matter too much rite? I have 7.8uF instaed of 7.5, 1.22mH instead of 1.2mH.

Will all these lil values add up?

nOOSE
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Old 4th October 2004, 01:47 AM   #13
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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Quote:
The scan and seas drivers used are very good quality and demand the best of partnering equipment, think $1000+ for the amp and source. You will not hear what they are capable of if you are lacking in this department.
I'm not sure I agree. When I compare my own SS-DIY speakers to previous commercial offering (Tannoy Mercury mX3) things sound better even with the mediocre equipment (no-name USD$50 DVD player, NAD C320 amplifier). Soundstage, articulation. And far more musical and realistic.

Of course they sing when paired with with better amplifier (ESP P3A amplifier or good valve amplifier). A better source gives an improvement too, but I can still enjoy then with an discman, the el-cheapo DVD player, and even random bitrate .mp3 music that friends bring over to audition. In fact, even these mp3 sound so much better friends are impressed.

I didn't want to say this before, but perhaps 5th Element may be onto something:

Quote:
If you are sure all the connections are correct then I can only assume you dont like the sound.
To illustrate this point, I have a close friend who has Logitech Z-680 5.1 (USD$300) computer speakers. He utterly adores them. He's a computer game fanatic, has a diet of purely action movies, and listens to a lot of trance dance music and the occasional chinese pop .mp3 from his computer.

"Incredible bass and and crispy treble" are the hallmarks of his speaker system. I've gone through my fair share of computer speakers so I'm not fooled easily, but I think this tonal balance can be immediately impressive.

One day I decided to measure his speakers (nearfield, test semi-tones sine waves). There's extremely elevated mid and upper bass (esp. 80-120Hz, with 120Hz about twice as loud as 80Hz! But steep rollof under 60Hz, rising upper treble, but lacking top octave (10+ KHz extension). A total exaggeration of neutral or natural music reproduction.

After completing my own speaker "TroelAc 2.95" (SS 18W/8535 + D2905/9500), I invited him over for a listen. IIRC he thought they were "quite nice, really good DIY speakers"

But, I'm not so certain he thinks they're better than his speakers.
However it did renew confidence of his Z680 purchase. 'bargain because it's 5.1 channels, more bass sound and has Dolby and DTS too!' Or something to that effect.

On the other hand, if given a set of those computer speakers, I'd promptly sell them, pocket the money or order a nice new pair of SS or Excel tweeters for the next DIY project

Now my partner and another close friend, have the standard CDplayer/tape/tuner/amplifier+2 matching speakers all-in-one typical of many Australian households.

These systems don't have any spectular attributes, with IMHO errors of ommision rather than commission. Now they both think the TroelAc 2.95 is utterly amazing and "a different class". They all start querying "how much?!" and beg for me build to them a pair.

Both are musically trained, listen to all sorts of music, and spend more money on concerts/live gigs than me, who loves visiting records store or buying CDs.
AFAIK their ears aren't any better from your average Joe, but their ears are not conditioned to systems with exaggerated tonal balance.

Their reference is live music, whether it be non-amplified or amplified.

In short, perhaps nOOSE needs a longer listen before judging,
A/B comparisons with Logitechs might be misleading him to judgments of the Ellas.
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Old 4th October 2004, 04:16 AM   #14
nOOSE is offline nOOSE  Australia
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I've been listening to them for the past week and they do sound incredibly clear at loud volumes and the vocals and nice and the bass is excellent. Goes really low.

I think my orignal post was a lil exaggerated and they are better than my logitechs.

I think i just expected soo much from them. Seeing as they are ten times more than my logitechs.

One thing is that the tweeter is quite harsh esp at louder volumes. Quite overpowering and the vocals could be ..what's that word...more prominant?? seems to be that it should be more out there.

gee i hope i'm making sense.

Any one have any ideas on how to fix these problems.

Remember i'm a complete noob at this and laymens terms is preferred.

Thanks in advance.

nOOSE
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Old 4th October 2004, 08:05 AM   #15
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If your amp is clipping and some could better answer with higher order harmonic distortion and other amplifier overdrive symptoms I can't explain... could explain why the tweeter becomes harsh.

A good quality 100watt SS amp will push 100watt speakers very nicely. The same 100 watt speakers can sound strained, compressed esp. in the treble with a lower quality and output (eg. 40 watt) amp. You probably already know it is better to have too much quality power than too little. Powerful amps rattle woofers, weaker amps blow tweeters.

I didn't realise how important amplification was until I switched.... even then I want better.

Dave.
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Old 4th October 2004, 12:25 PM   #16
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A lot this this is what you like and are used to. Most people on this board will strive for tonal neutrality and even knowing what that is can be difficult in the first place. But some people like the logitech approach because its what they are used to and enjoy. I bought a pair of sub/sat logitech 2.1 speakers for someone and the first thing I did what open up foobar on their computer enable the parametric equaliser and EQ out the 120hz bump and the bump in the midrange. To my ears that was much more pleasent.

With regards to amplifiers, I know that even if you exchanged a pair of OK speakers to excellent speakers on budget amp and source you will still get an improvement.

Ive said this a few times, but I had a Quad77 integrated amp which was/is a good sounding $1000 amp. I built my slone clone and I was amazed.

If you have OK amplifiers you will get nice sounds from your DIY speakers, upgrade and you will get magic.
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Old 4th October 2004, 12:31 PM   #17
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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Default Slone clone?

5th Element,

Your thoughts echo mine exactly. I think that was what I was trying to say in the previous post, but I did it in a long-winded and confusing way.

Now I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I did a quick search for 'slone clone' and 0 hits.

Can you tell us more about this amp?
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