more bass from lascalas ?

[t81]

I'm new to diy so bare with me. I have a pair of Klipsch Lascala speaker in a room 26' x 36' x 22' high powered by a Rotel 100 w/pc reciver. My "problem" is I'm disapionted with bass peformance and I am considering building a pair of woofer only speakers. I currently am not using an eq but have one coming. I would appriciate any imput or comment, keep in mind I am simple and new to this site and may be asking my question in the wrong place. Thanks T81

[Brett]

The flare rate of the LS is 100Hz, so you're not going to get anywhere near the same performance out of a stocker below that as above it. Adding subs below is a good idea, but you're going to need a lot of clean, low distortion sound capability or they're going to integrate like oil and water. If you have lots of room, a pair of LABhorns (or some other decent LF horn) would do well.

Also, build the ALK xover, it makes a big improvement to my ears in my Khorns.

[t81]

Brett, thanks for your suggestion. You seem to be the man when it comes to horns. I read your La Scala Mod page, way over my head but very informative. Is it possible to to lower the Hz buy using existing drivers and crossover? Is cabinet mod or porting an alternative. One thing I can do is carpentry? These stockers are rated for 100W in 400 peak, Do I need more than 100w/pc or is upgrading woofer and or crossover the only ticket. Much appriciated , T81

[Bill Fitzpatrick]

Originally posted by t81
I'm new to diy so bare with me.

Bare with you? Please! I don't even know you.

[Brett]

Originally posted by t81
Brett, thanks for your suggestion. You seem to be the man when it comes to horns.

Aw, shucks. No, I'm just someone who likes to experiment, can read and use a calculator.

I read your La Scala Mod page, way over my head but very informative.

If you mean the one I've linked to previously regarding porting and SB4 alignments, that's the work of 'djk'

Is it possible to to lower the Hz buy using existing drivers and crossover? Is cabinet mod or porting an alternative.

The only way I know how to do it is with Dennis' mods, linked before.

One thing I can do is carpentry?

Then build some basshorns of you have the room, or try Dennis' mod.

These stockers are rated for 100W in 400 peak, Do I need more than 100w/pc or is upgrading woofer and or crossover the only ticket. Much appriciated , T81

Have you ever actually put 100W though them? That's over 120dB! My Khorns were run off a 5W tube amp in a room much larger then yours and that still got the Police called regularly over the noise. Get an SPL meter and be careful with your hearing!
This brings up the big problem I see with well designed horn systems; they're generally so clean that you can play them a lot louder than direct radiator systems before you notice any sort of compression effects.

[paulspencer]

I'd say there is probably nothing better than a pair of horn subs to get the bass that you want. I have seen one person unfold a lab horn to use in a church (it's online somewhere) and it seems that perhaps you could do this in such a big room. Unfolded is better as you get a smoother response.

Alternative - one Tumult per side to sit under your existing speakers.

Whatever you do, I think you will get the best out of it by setting it up well with eq - like say the Behringer Ultracurve - see review here

This will not only help with room correction, it may have a few more surprises:

1. correct horn response - not known to be flat
2. correct recordings - so many just don't sound right when you get a flat response due to the way they mixed for speakers that aren't flat
3. add contours to suit your preferences - BBC dip, etc

[paulspencer]

Out of curiosity I modelled your room in the FRD room reflection calculator, assuming a listening position in the middle of the room seated. What I found was that the bass dips quickly below 100 Hz until about 50 Hz. If you had early bass rolloff then this would kill whatever bass you do have and by the time you get to 50 Hz there is so much rolloff that it's all gone.

If you put subs under the mains you will have to eq to get it flat.

Note: magenta curve shows the response further back in the room.

The red curve shows the response you get when the subs are 1m either side of you, much less impacted by the room.

Please note: this is a fairly crude simulation and will only give some ideas of what *might* be happening.

It is interesting to note that with the subs up close, the response is so smooth you don't need much eq. The only problem with this approach is where you have distortion, this enables localisation and suddenly the bass will be coming from the subs rather than being coherent with the mains. I suspect this is something that you could fix with digital delay which you have on the Ultracurve, which would probably not otherwise be required.

In a nutshell, here's my suggestion - pick whichever of these appeals most to you:

1. build a pair of horn subs and place them in the room corners and add ultracurve between your pre and power amp to eq your whole system

2. build a pair of small monopoles to go either side of your seating position - choose a driver for low distortion like the Tumult - eq with ultracurve - you may use ultracurve fullrange unless you determine that you need to use delay in which case you can only use it for the subs

From a performance point of view, both will be VERY impressive. With the subs so close you effectively gain a lot of efficiency just like you would with horn loading, and you may find the result more "domestically acceptable."

Here's a chart showing the simulation:

[Brett]

Originally posted by paulspencer
1. build a pair of horn subs and place them in the room corners and add ultracurve between your pre and power amp to eq your whole system

Yes, but without the UC.

[t81]

Brett, paulspencer and Bill, thank you for your comments and suggestion and Brett sorry about the la scala mod mix up.

[t81]

pualspencer just for the heck of my room is 26' wide 36' long with cathedral ceiling running long ways. the sid walls rise to 13' then rise 34 degrees to 22'. at one end is flat or straight wall at the speaker end is a prow gable that slopes out at 18 degrees. my speakers are in the corners of this prow gable aiming in at 18 degrees crossing signal at 28'(listening area). thanks again, t81