newbie help with deciding on speakers

[DaKi][er]

I'm in the process of making my own speaker system and i’m trying to decide on what speakers to use and i’m completely lost with what’s out there

A little info of what I’ve chosen so far-

3 way speakers + a sub
All active crossovers, Linkwitz 12/24db as ESP’s diy project
Gainclone amps for each
And these details are fairly set down and want to work with them

Now I’ll be using them for mostly music, a bit of ht on the side but that has no priority, my music tastes consist of mostly rock & metal, some techno/dance, and little bit of jazz and classical on the side

Currently I’m using headphones for all my listening (currently with Beyer dt531's and Etymotic er4 ) and i’m hoping to have something that can sound at least as good

Regarding construction of them, my father is a builder/carpenter and so I have access to all the tools and materials I could ever need and the experience to use them as well

budget and location is going to limit me a fair bit here, I really need to be able to locate drivers from Australia (in my searching’s I found places to get vifa, visaton but i’m sure there is much wider choice from these). Also I’m trying to keep this project as inexpensive as possible and have about $800-1k aus on speakers in total

Now I’m no pioneer so a 'clone' of a previous design would work well for me seeing I don’t have really any experience on speaker design myself. I’ve of course done some research myself but everything I find doesn’t work for me in what I’ve got to work with (hence asking for help here )

So any suggestions on what/where to start, especially other Aussies on the forums

[dvdwmth]

How about Dennis Murphy's MBOW 3 way. I dont know what the shipping for the mid drivers will be like though since they come from the US.

Perhaps this one will save you having to have drivers shipped:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/sd500_2002win.shtml

There are two more on this site but they use Dayton drivers which you will have to have shipped from parts express. Check out the Lyra and the Veritas. The Veritas also has a version with a cheaper Vifa tweeter. You'll have to search the site to find it.

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/default.htm

I havn't built these but perhaps you'll find them helpful.

You've probably noticed there are not a ton of three ways out there. But since your planning on a sub anyway, are you sure a two way with a sub wouldn't suit you? Especially since you say this is mostly for music, you would probably be fine without reaching all the way down to 20hz. You might be even better off spending your money on a really good two way with reasonable bass extension rather than buying eight so-so drivers. Later, if you find that you are really missing the lowest bass you can save some more money to build a really good sub.

You might be surprised how much bass there actually is in some of the two way designs.

Also, what you are asking for has alot of room for error and complications, and could easily turn into a waste of money.

If you still have questions just ask. Sometimes you have be abit persistant to get your questions answered but people here are very helpful.

Good luck

[dvdwmth]

oh, and I'd skip the active crossovers for now until you have more experience. I cant think of a single project out there that you can copy that has them so you'd be pretty much on your own.

[Hornlover]

Go with your original plans. A 3 way will allow you to keep the critical midrange intact. Check here. The WPU1205 system sounds like it was made for you. These are wonderful, and the quality of the Selenium drivers are second to none. The favorable exchange rate with South America makes them a bargain. Go active, per Rod Elliots advice. Bi-amping (or tri-amping) is absolutely required if you want a true SOTA system.

http://www.highefficiencyloudspeaker...surePlans.html

Check here for Selenium drivers down under.

Name: Network Entertainment Technology P/L
Country: Australia
State: BROOKVALE
Phone: +61 2 9905 5997
Fax: +61 2 9905 9440
E-mail: sales@network-et.com

[DaKi][er]

Thanks for the reply’s

I don’t some reading around a bit of my own and came across the Orion by linkwitz and if it wasn’t for being about 3X out of my price it looked perfect (and parts were reasonably easy to get here too)

I’m set on the active crossovers, I’m quite comfortable with all the electronics that’s needed, I’ve designed my own circuit board for the active crossover and don’t want to see it go to waste and even if the original design is using passive xover I could use active for it (maybe?)

So, in my readings i'm liking an open baffle design yet I don’t have any understanding on the considerations when designing one, as I have found very little documentation on the basics of them and no real designs to follow that suits my situation. It also seams that with these it’s a lot of testing and guessing if it will work and seems all a bit relatively new

So now I’m more confused than when I started, I’ll read through the links you've gave me and think about it some more

[dvdwmth]

there are a couple of open baffle designs on that site other than the orion that would be cheaper to build. There is one that uses a tweeter, an 8in woofer and I think a twelve in an h frame. He also provides plans for the same speaker as an mtm and at the bottom discusses the use of an active system.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm

[planet10]

Go active... it gives you way more versatility when it comes to choosing drivers, and once right (and a lot easier to get right) will generally whomp a passive network.

I'd think you could get away with a 3-way, the 4-way spreads your budget too thin.

$0.8-1k is more budget than i normally work with. Start by getting a suitable midrange. That is where most of the music is. I usually recommend a Jordan or a Fostex for this crital range -- they also help in getting th XOs into the 80-300 Hz range at the bottom, and > 5k at the top.

Of the 2 driver brands you mentioed, there is a Vifa P13 aimed at midrange that is very respectable and the Visaton B200 is an absolute stand-out.

dave

[paulspencer]

Daki,

Are you in Melbourne? If so it's a pity you didn't show earlier as we had a DIY speaker event a few weeks ago at my place and you could have heard a pile of diy speakers!

Your budget is a bit tight for 3 way active speakers plus a sub, if not virtually impossible to do with worthwhile drivers. But I do think it's a good way to go.

On your budget you can do a nice pair of floorstanding speakers!

The best value drivers for diyers IMO in Australia are Vifa, Peerless, Scan Speak from Wes components. The best prices are at Wes Components. You can also get Seas from Acoustic Concepts and they also have Adire drivers.

A good starting point for a sub would be an MTM tower with a sealed XLS 12" per side.

Driver cost:
Tweeter Vifa D25AG or similar - $40 x 2
Midbass Vifa P17 or Peerless CSX 65" - $70 x 4
Sub Peerless XLS 12" - $220 x 2
Total $800

You would need to add at least $100 for the box and then some more for finishing, then there is the cost of crossover, amps etc.

If you want to go passive then you probably need to get a kit or follow a design and even then you should have some measuring ability.

Seas drivers tend to cost a bit more and the Shiva is a good driver if you want a vented sub for HT, but it actually costs more than the XLS (which is extremely good value here in oz).

I wouldn't look past these drivers for a first project.

[paulspencer]

Another suggestion: be wary of taking on too many unknown quantities first time around. Designing a dipole like Linkwitz does CAN be one of the more challenging projects, and you project can come to a grinding halt due to taking on too many things that are very new. If you are set on it, by all means have a go. Just be wary of committing to taking on too much.

Putting some speakers on some cheap baffles and trying things is cheap and can be an interesting exercise on the other hand. It's always good to try things. I have some cheap drivers in a dodgy open baffle with some crude eq as my computer speakers and they do tend do sound better than they have any right to!

[planet10]

Originally posted by paulspencer
Your budget is a bit tight for 3 way active speakers plus a sub, if not virtually impossible to do with worthwhile drivers. But I do think it's a good way to go.

Does the budget include the amps?

Midbass Vifa P17 or Peerless CSX 65" - $70 x 4

If you are going with a sub, why not use a P13 -- it is a better driver except in the bass, and with a pr of woofers you only need to reach 80-100 Hz. I also prefer a single driver on the front (if you use 2 the 2nd one is better on the back.

You could actually look at this system as the diyAudio starter reference speaker

http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.p...Vifa+P13%2FD27

plus a pr of active woofers. You could go active on the top right away or you could just use the simple passive XO.

The big XL woofers seem to be eating a inordinate amount of the budget (and have a nasty breakup mode -- some might consider it too high to worry about, but....), you might consider something different -- i like to use my woofers in pairs, and am willing to give up a bit on the bottom to get a bit more extension on the top -- this makes it easier to get good intgration with the mids.

dave