Here you are some pictures of my ongoing project. A 3 way dipole speaker called "Spicatto"
The drivers are XLS10, Vifa XTWO and the SS9700. There is no sound yet, as the active filter it's being discussed and studied with the kx drivers. Measurements of the drivers have been made with speakerworkshop, and of course polite comments are welcome
The drivers are XLS10, Vifa XTWO and the SS9700. There is no sound yet, as the active filter it's being discussed and studied with the kx drivers. Measurements of the drivers have been made with speakerworkshop, and of course polite comments are welcome
Attachments
This is really nice looking speaker.It is an OB right? Well I cannot see back side on pictures,but it looks thin to be a box speaker. I wonder what was your reason to put both bass drivers in front and not one versus another(one firing to back wall)? I'm not suggesting it would work better,but I'mtrying to figure out concept of OB bass,and you could be of some help
Tomac said:
Note the title - DIPOLES ... so yes this is an open baffle dipole.
I think you are talking about push pull mounting where one driver is rotated 180 degrees and they are wired with reverse polarity. This cancels distortion.
Raka, did you consider push pull mounting?
I must say I'm very pleased to see a project with the Vifa XT midbass, haven't seen it before and it has appeal especially being unique. It's actually a very distinctive driver. I'm very interested to hear your comments on what it sounds like.
Very very nice work
Thanks for the cumpliments
I considered pushpull, but after making some test by hearing, I couldn't distinguish one from each other, even I might have liked more the push push. By the way, it only cancels even order harmonics.
I'll let you know how good performer is the Vifa, it was recommended by a very good speaker builder, I have never listened to it yet. His Qms is more than five !!
I considered pushpull, but after making some test by hearing, I couldn't distinguish one from each other, even I might have liked more the push push. By the way, it only cancels even order harmonics.
I'll let you know how good performer is the Vifa, it was recommended by a very good speaker builder, I have never listened to it yet. His Qms is more than five !!
It does look good Wood is my favorite color!
You said that comments are welcome? I guess I'd just say that it looks a little tippy. If you've got pets or small children, I would consider adding a base to it. Of course, you might have thought of this and weighted the bottom already- but I didn't see.
There definitely seems to be a new wave of enthusiasm for open baffles on this forum. I am definitely considering a project like this- though somewhat different. Would you mind sharing what you expect the crossover points to be, and expected bass response? Will you be using a subwoofer?
Rock on.
Joe
Wood is my favorite color!You said that comments are welcome? I guess I'd just say that it looks a little tippy. If you've got pets or small children, I would consider adding a base to it. Of course, you might have thought of this and weighted the bottom already- but I didn't see.
There definitely seems to be a new wave of enthusiasm for open baffles on this forum. I am definitely considering a project like this- though somewhat different. Would you mind sharing what you expect the crossover points to be, and expected bass response? Will you be using a subwoofer?
Rock on.
Joe
Raka said:Here you are some pictures of my ongoing project. A 3 way dipole speaker called "Spicatto"
The drivers are XLS10, Vifa XTWO and the SS9700. There is no sound yet, as the active filter it's being discussed and studied with the kx drivers. Measurements of the drivers have been made with speakerworkshop, and of course polite comments are welcome
Very nice looking! Let us know what you think of those wood cones.
I'm using the carbon fiber version in some MTM's and I like them quite a bit, at least in the critical midrange. I'm using them sealed right now, but I made the baffle removable and I may just pop them on a dipole baffle some day.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And when I get around to trying the dipole version, I'm going to try this edge technique. It will give me a nice smooth 2" roundover. I'll probably do 60 degrees rather than the 120 degrees shown. This was just a test bend.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
joe carrow said:It does look good
You said that comments are welcome? I guess I'd just say that it looks a little tippy. If you've got pets or small children, I would consider adding a base to it. Of course, you might have thought of this and weighted the bottom already- but I didn't see.
There definitely seems to be a new wave of enthusiasm for open baffles on this forum. I am definitely considering a project like this- though somewhat different. Would you mind sharing what you expect the crossover points to be, and expected bass response? Will you be using a subwoofer?
Rock on.
Joe
Yes, there is kind of a base, and might add some weight in the bottom.
No, I don't think I will add a sub, but who knows
, maybe I start to watching DVD films very loud The XLS can't be crossed high (not that I want), and the expected cut will be 24LR at 120÷150Hz. The tweeter will start to run from 1650 up, also with an acoustic 24LR. The standard baffle compensation, roll off included, just to get flat until 30Hz. Maybe lower, but don't think so as I listen to vinyl mainly.
Raka,
I think push push looks better. Good idea to actually use your ears instead of blindly following what most suggest. I have heard comments that even order harmonic distortion isn't something to worry about unless you are a strict purist - it can sound pleasant and even better. This is why so many like valve amps.
John,
How did you get that curve? Did you cut all the way through? If so how did you arrange them when you put that *veneer (?)* on?
What are your thoughts on the XT drivers. If I recall their price is similar to Scan Speak drivers, but haven't really heard anyone's comments on what they sound like.
I think push push looks better. Good idea to actually use your ears instead of blindly following what most suggest. I have heard comments that even order harmonic distortion isn't something to worry about unless you are a strict purist - it can sound pleasant and even better. This is why so many like valve amps.
John,
How did you get that curve? Did you cut all the way through? If so how did you arrange them when you put that *veneer (?)* on?
What are your thoughts on the XT drivers. If I recall their price is similar to Scan Speak drivers, but haven't really heard anyone's comments on what they sound like.
I know this thread is for Rakas beautiful speakers, but...... Zaph, I love you man. That bend in the mdf is the coolest thing I have ever seen done with that material. You have just revolutionized the way I will build things in the future. Its one of those "why the ******* didn't I think of that" ways of doing something.
Paul,
I'm a purist also, but not a technical purist, but a hearing one. I wouldn't change to pushpush only by looking. By the way, have you checked the Cheever Thesis? I think you will like it for sure.
The wood is just pine, and the front is 19mm mdf. Pine that I rounded over with hand tools, like a carpenter. It's not veneered, but varnished. First I applied a colored varnish directly to the sanded pine. After that I sanded, so the grain is more visible. Varnish again, and after that standard transparent varnish. Four layers, without sanding between. When everything is dry, you use a sanding machine to make the surface perfectly flat, some polish, and that's all. Yes, it takes toooooo much time and patience.
After that, I glued the leather, and with a router I made a duct to hide the leather ends. This was easy than expected. The leather shows in the picture some irregularities, but now that the glue is dry, no longer there are.
Scanspeak drivers are more expensive, but as I only have experience with cheap drivers (this is my first serious project) don't know how they will compare. But will let you know the results
They are now playing some test tones.
I'm a purist also, but not a technical purist, but a hearing one. I wouldn't change to pushpush only by looking. By the way, have you checked the Cheever Thesis? I think you will like it for sure.
The wood is just pine, and the front is 19mm mdf. Pine that I rounded over with hand tools, like a carpenter. It's not veneered, but varnished. First I applied a colored varnish directly to the sanded pine. After that I sanded, so the grain is more visible. Varnish again, and after that standard transparent varnish. Four layers, without sanding between. When everything is dry, you use a sanding machine to make the surface perfectly flat, some polish, and that's all. Yes, it takes toooooo much time and patience.
After that, I glued the leather, and with a router I made a duct to hide the leather ends. This was easy than expected. The leather shows in the picture some irregularities, but now that the glue is dry, no longer there are.
Scanspeak drivers are more expensive, but as I only have experience with cheap drivers (this is my first serious project) don't know how they will compare. But will let you know the results
They are now playing some test tones.
Hi Raka,
Wow very nice work! I've not done much with dipoles but I read a lot, AES and Linkwitz' page. I remember a very old paper that may or may not be of interest:
RJ Newman, Dipole Radiator Systems, Journal of the
Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 28, pp. 35-39 (1980 Jan./Feb.).
A few minor points that I notice - the baffle for the XLS's is small as far as I can tell, very different from a W enclosure or any large baffle which results in a high baffle cutoff freq, doesn't this require large amounts of EQ and therefore high excursion? Maybe not a problem since your going for 30 Hz, I'd think the excursion requirements would be large even for 30 Hz, but it depends on your maxSPL requirement. As you also mention the XLS's have some serious breakup in the midbass, and the XT18 will probably reach maximum excursion fairly high up in frequency at high levels, seems to be a stretch, but if you're not going for high SPLs should be fine. Linkwitz used a long throw 8" but I don't remember his lower XO frequency. Just a few minor observations very nice work!
Linkwitz seems to put a lot of emphasis on less excitement of room modes with dipoles as you mentioned, but the figure 8 pattern also helps with side wall reflections up into the lower midrange for these systems, even higher for full range dipoles.
Wow very nice work! I've not done much with dipoles but I read a lot, AES and Linkwitz' page. I remember a very old paper that may or may not be of interest:
RJ Newman, Dipole Radiator Systems, Journal of the
Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 28, pp. 35-39 (1980 Jan./Feb.).
A few minor points that I notice - the baffle for the XLS's is small as far as I can tell, very different from a W enclosure or any large baffle which results in a high baffle cutoff freq, doesn't this require large amounts of EQ and therefore high excursion? Maybe not a problem since your going for 30 Hz, I'd think the excursion requirements would be large even for 30 Hz, but it depends on your maxSPL requirement. As you also mention the XLS's have some serious breakup in the midbass, and the XT18 will probably reach maximum excursion fairly high up in frequency at high levels, seems to be a stretch, but if you're not going for high SPLs should be fine. Linkwitz used a long throw 8" but I don't remember his lower XO frequency. Just a few minor observations very nice work!
Linkwitz seems to put a lot of emphasis on less excitement of room modes with dipoles as you mentioned, but the figure 8 pattern also helps with side wall reflections up into the lower midrange for these systems, even higher for full range dipoles.
Forgot to mention that I do a lot with closed box systems as you can see here:
http://members.aol.com/basconsultants/spkrs.htm
http://members.aol.com/basconsultants/spkrs.htm
PB2,
Thanks for your comments, I love to hear these comments
Yes, the baffle is not very wide, and I don't use the H woofer. I wanted to avoid the cavity resonances, knowing that the maximum SPL would be lower, but making some preliminary tests, for my listening level (that is not low, btw) the cones doesn't go out the window, and you can't see them moving too much, so I think I made a good compromise in my case.
Maybe in the picture is not very clear, but the sides are not constant wide, but at more or less half the height, there is an extension increase of 50%. Distance from center of cone to rear of it is 570mm, that is not big, but will do.
Linkwitz's Orion has a 120Hz xover for the mid, and in my calculus my 6,5" will have max spl level at this frequency not lower than that, since my effective D is higher than his, and the qts of my driver more or less equal, being the sensivity similar.
The dipole radiation, if well implemented, not only has the advantage of the room modes cancellation, but additionally you can control the radiation patern and reflected sound equalization.
Nice web you have
Thanks for your comments, I love to hear these comments
Yes, the baffle is not very wide, and I don't use the H woofer. I wanted to avoid the cavity resonances, knowing that the maximum SPL would be lower, but making some preliminary tests, for my listening level (that is not low, btw) the cones doesn't go out the window, and you can't see them moving too much, so I think I made a good compromise in my case.
Maybe in the picture is not very clear, but the sides are not constant wide, but at more or less half the height, there is an extension increase of 50%. Distance from center of cone to rear of it is 570mm, that is not big, but will do.
Linkwitz's Orion has a 120Hz xover for the mid, and in my calculus my 6,5" will have max spl level at this frequency not lower than that, since my effective D is higher than his, and the qts of my driver more or less equal, being the sensivity similar.
The dipole radiation, if well implemented, not only has the advantage of the room modes cancellation, but additionally you can control the radiation patern and reflected sound equalization.
Nice web you have
Yes, they still vibrate a bit. Not as much as they used to on my test baffles when you could actually see the MTM section shaking back and forward to big bass beats.
The new shape of the side panels has helped, and also the fact that I have attempted to physically decouple the bass section from the mid section, although I could go further with this.
I thought about leather (I used to own Sonus Fabers) but I'm a little clumsy for that.
Cheers
Steve
The new shape of the side panels has helped, and also the fact that I have attempted to physically decouple the bass section from the mid section, although I could go further with this.
I thought about leather (I used to own Sonus Fabers) but I'm a little clumsy for that.
Cheers
Steve
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