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Old 23rd September 2004, 04:56 PM   #1
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Default Cd - Vinyl Sound Difference

I ask on a similar forum an advise in order to buy an equalizer to get about the same sound from a cd and a vinyl record as cd seems have less low midrandge and no space in the bass ; i do not mean no bass but you do not feel it is an instrument compare to vinyl .
I axnted to change my equalizer with a memory equalizer like behringer 8024 inorder to change the set up form cd to record .

A gentleman told me to get an ART preamp to set up the bass harmonic on cd !!!

Any comment

ger56
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Old 24th September 2004, 09:34 AM   #2
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Basic differences:
1. Bass on vinyl is always mixed down to mono.
2. Frequency response of vinyl is curtailed at higher end of spectrum as there are physical limits to the speed with which the stylus can move without jumping out of the groove.
3. May be a certain amount of infra-bass noise (wow) coming from slight warps in the record - hence why a lot of older amps have a bass cutoff switch.

There are a lot of other issues, but these are the main ones that will be relevant to equalisation.

Apologies in advance as this is sure to turn into an interminable CD vs. vinyl debate...

Arnie
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Old 24th September 2004, 10:05 AM   #3
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Arnie

what would you suggest to get about the same sound quality on cd and vinyl ? .

gerard
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Old 24th September 2004, 10:14 AM   #4
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As i understand it you will not be able to get the same sound from these two sources, analog and digital one, with help of an equalizer.

A fundamental difference is, the analog source has more information about the waveform at lower level, the information about the waveform decrease with falling level for the digital medium. What means, compared to the original signal, distortion increases with volume going down for the digital medium in opposite to the analog medium.
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Old 24th September 2004, 01:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by till
As i understand it you will not be able to get the same sound from these two sources, analog and digital one, with help of an equalizer.

A fundamental difference is, the analog source has more information about the waveform at lower level, the information about the waveform decrease with falling level for the digital medium. What means, compared to the original signal, distortion increases with volume going down for the digital medium in opposite to the analog medium.

Here we go

This is so wrong... low level signals from ANY source are going to be swamped by noise. Doesn't matter if it's analogue or digital. The only difference is going to be exactly how much noise is present. A clean 16 bit digital setup is going to have over 96dB range between max scale and the smallest signal that can be replayed. Contrast with vinyl where you're never going to get much better than 80dB before noise takes over.

What is your definition of "sound quality"? Both vinyl and CD have their own distinctive limitations, and the only way you'll get them to sound the same is to go to the lowest common denominator in each parameter you'd be testing... hardly the point of hi-fi!

If I were you, I'd concentrate on getting the best replay equipment you can afford (turntables by their nature are highly mechanical so spending money on the best engineering you can afford will bring huge gains) and accepting that they will sound "different".

HTH,

Arnie
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Old 24th September 2004, 02:05 PM   #6
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You adress only the noise as source of distortion for the signal. What about the information avaiable about the signal? A low level signal on digital medium is only very few bits information depht. What does the better SNR help, if my all i know about my signal has 6 Bits resolution?
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Old 24th September 2004, 03:27 PM   #7
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Arnie ...

if i want them to sound the same it isbecause i feel vinyl is better .
I am french and live in france when i collect jazz record and i always bought us pressing wich where much better than french pressing even if it was hard to find and more expensive .
Now we can't stop the progress , we live with internet and cd's and emule and so on ....
I just try to get the best of my new cd's wich can be recording from the 60's or 70's .
In thsi forum i found a lot of things about the behringer 8024 and I was wondering if i could just play with to get a better from the cd ...

But i can leave with the cd sound , do not worry it is just for the music !

best regards

gerard
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Old 24th September 2004, 03:50 PM   #8
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Music is what it's all about!
If accuracy is not the goal then sure, you can process the CD sound however you like to get it as close to vinyl as possible. There are all sorts of euphonic distortions, frequency manipulations etc. that could be used. Maybe a vintage valve-based preamp would soften up the sound to your liking.

As for the bit depth, it doesn't really matter if you've only got 6 bits to describe a sound that is 60dB down as the LSB is still going to have a higher amplitude resolution than an analogue medium can offer, and digital systems use all sorts of tricks like gaussian dither to make those 6 bits give 8 bits of resolution. The key here is that the uncertainty about the exact level being reproduced is higher when there is more noise present, masking any "stepping" in the waveform (think of the waveform having added "fuzz").
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Old 25th September 2004, 08:43 PM   #9
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Default CD to sound like Vinyl ?

Essentially, you won't be able to do it, unless you are working at a higher sampling rate (60 kHz min), which means you would have to upsample your CD first. Then, you can give the IMPRESSION of an old vinyl recording by rolling off the high and Lowest frequencies and THEN mixing in some crackle and pop sounds. There is some evidence that the these "discontinuities" trick our ear into believing that there is more information about the sound available than there actually is. BTW, Till is correct, we CAN hear information BELOW the residual noise level. This has been known for some time.

Cheers

RB
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Old 25th September 2004, 09:28 PM   #10
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
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Speaking pragmatically, it is very common for CD reissues to have been remastered with a different EQ setting to suit 'modern sensibilities'. As stated, this EQ curve often has less low midrange and more mid treble, and can be extreme. It is more common in older CD's, when manufacturers were attempting to ensure that consumers could tell the difference in sound.

Setting aside issues of sound quality, an EQ is one way to deal with bright sounding CD's. You purists out there will be interested to know that virtually all recordings are EQ'd during mastering. I don't have a problem with using a high quality digital equalizer to correct what was essentially a marketing decision aimed at consumers with cheap stereos.

GB
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