Gentlemen:
I have the Ariel speaker components from Northcreek (Vifa P13wh0008 and SS D2905/9500)
After a lot of reading and checking up on the drivers quality. got the kit from North Creek, despite misgivings about some of the comments by Olson such as regarding tube amps and biwiring etc. I will be using SS amp 55Watt/ch (NAD receiver).
I prefer a tower as opposed to speakers on stands and MTM setup and am planning a separate active XO deep bass setup later. I am mainly into classical and Jazz, vocal and instrumenal.
There seems to be some controversy about the enclosure and the XO.
So before I spend the time (in Particular!) and money, building the Ariels using the 6C version, I would like to hear about alternatives or improvements and experiences.
Ron (Transducer) has made some interesting comments on another thread about an alternative XO but no picture. If he sees this: what version of Ariel and tweeter he owned and could I see the alternative XO?
Looking forward to hear replies
I have the Ariel speaker components from Northcreek (Vifa P13wh0008 and SS D2905/9500)
After a lot of reading and checking up on the drivers quality. got the kit from North Creek, despite misgivings about some of the comments by Olson such as regarding tube amps and biwiring etc. I will be using SS amp 55Watt/ch (NAD receiver).
I prefer a tower as opposed to speakers on stands and MTM setup and am planning a separate active XO deep bass setup later. I am mainly into classical and Jazz, vocal and instrumenal.
There seems to be some controversy about the enclosure and the XO.
So before I spend the time (in Particular!) and money, building the Ariels using the 6C version, I would like to hear about alternatives or improvements and experiences.
Ron (Transducer) has made some interesting comments on another thread about an alternative XO but no picture. If he sees this: what version of Ariel and tweeter he owned and could I see the alternative XO?
Looking forward to hear replies
I built the original version, before Lynn came out with all of these alternatives. It had adjustable base height for tuning bass. I used the 9300 tweeter.
Look on my web page for alternative crossover, I never built it though, sold them first.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron.steinberg/arielxover.html
If you were to put these drivers into a ported box, or sealed with a sub, and do a new crossover, I think you'd be happy. I was just never happy with the original crossover.
I noticed you're near Toronto, I'm at Eglinton and Allen Rd. Currently I'm using a small 2 way ported box with the Vifa PL14 and 9300 tweeter.
Ron
Look on my web page for alternative crossover, I never built it though, sold them first.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron.steinberg/arielxover.html
If you were to put these drivers into a ported box, or sealed with a sub, and do a new crossover, I think you'd be happy. I was just never happy with the original crossover.
I noticed you're near Toronto, I'm at Eglinton and Allen Rd. Currently I'm using a small 2 way ported box with the Vifa PL14 and 9300 tweeter.
Ron
mee too
Same here!. I'm planning to build some active monitors with the basic Ariel drivers in a simpler enclosure and active crossovers. For amplification I'd use something like 3 LM3875 in a Gainclone configuration. Simple, cheap and fast to build.
From my personal point of view,active crossovers makes sense with this config .After all Olson choosed these drivers for their absence of resonances, so apparently there is no need to do lot of compensation work.
Hey Ron, can you provide more info about your two way speakers? That's another alternative for us. I've never been a fan of MTM designs.
cheers
Ric
Same here!. I'm planning to build some active monitors with the basic Ariel drivers in a simpler enclosure and active crossovers. For amplification I'd use something like 3 LM3875 in a Gainclone configuration. Simple, cheap and fast to build.
From my personal point of view,active crossovers makes sense with this config .After all Olson choosed these drivers for their absence of resonances, so apparently there is no need to do lot of compensation work.
Hey Ron, can you provide more info about your two way speakers? That's another alternative for us. I've never been a fan of MTM designs.
cheers
Ric
Vifa P13
The P13s are really nice littl drivers. My favorite implementation using 4 of these is the TLb.
If you are going to add an active woofer, you could probably just do a sealed bipolar, but i like the TLs reduction in time-smear from stuff coming back thru the cone. And the T on the back isn't essential.
The beauty of the P13 is the really smooth roll-off at the top. With an MTM you can't take advantage of that. On the same site as the TLb is Chris' Daline. The article is a bit out of date. He switched to a modded Vifa tweeter and a computer optimized XO. Then he started tweaking the XO and it kept getting better until all he had was the single cap on the T.
The bipolar allows you to build a really narrow box and not have to worry about baffle-step. You do have to have a room where you can pull the speakers out from the walls.
dave
The P13s are really nice littl drivers. My favorite implementation using 4 of these is the TLb.
If you are going to add an active woofer, you could probably just do a sealed bipolar, but i like the TLs reduction in time-smear from stuff coming back thru the cone. And the T on the back isn't essential.
The beauty of the P13 is the really smooth roll-off at the top. With an MTM you can't take advantage of that. On the same site as the TLb is Chris' Daline. The article is a bit out of date. He switched to a modded Vifa tweeter and a computer optimized XO. Then he started tweaking the XO and it kept getting better until all he had was the single cap on the T.
The bipolar allows you to build a really narrow box and not have to worry about baffle-step. You do have to have a room where you can pull the speakers out from the walls.
dave
my 6Bs
I built the 6B's - here ... www.speechstreet.net/ariels/
I was very happy with them until I decided I want more efficiency - I make them out to be about 89db though I've never metered them. I spent allot on the crossovers with all Northcreek components and using Hovland caps for some of the series ones. The results were a very large/spacious soundstage with good warmth and smoothness - kinda that 300B sound (but I am using JJ 300B's in my push-pull amp). They are lacking in bass quantity (at least compared to the Hammer Dynamic Super 12's I'm working on now - but then they DO have 12" divers!) and don't go that low, but sound quick with sufficient percieved extention, at least for me. I used the 9500's and the treble seems a little soft/rolled-off and lacking in ultimate low level detail retrieval. Now after reading others comments about Hovlands, I wonder if I could get them to sound better by tweaking the tweeter crossover - ie modifying the resistor values as per Olson's site, and swapping out the Hovlands for a more lively cap. I won't know if and until I get around to experimenting/tweeking. On the flip side, swapping out the Hovlands might lose some of that lushness, I don't know.
Also, there is very little guidance given on the Ariel site for stuffing the chambers...what does "loosely filled" mean? ... something I found irritating. So more tweeking again is needed (which I never did either).
If you're a detail freak, I don't think this is the speaker for you. But the Ariel is a really LUSH sounding speaker, at least mine are.
I personally think that anyone who thinks this speaker doesn't sound good did something very wrong in building them.
I built the 6B's - here ... www.speechstreet.net/ariels/
I was very happy with them until I decided I want more efficiency - I make them out to be about 89db though I've never metered them. I spent allot on the crossovers with all Northcreek components and using Hovland caps for some of the series ones. The results were a very large/spacious soundstage with good warmth and smoothness - kinda that 300B sound (but I am using JJ 300B's in my push-pull amp). They are lacking in bass quantity (at least compared to the Hammer Dynamic Super 12's I'm working on now - but then they DO have 12" divers!) and don't go that low, but sound quick with sufficient percieved extention, at least for me. I used the 9500's and the treble seems a little soft/rolled-off and lacking in ultimate low level detail retrieval. Now after reading others comments about Hovlands, I wonder if I could get them to sound better by tweaking the tweeter crossover - ie modifying the resistor values as per Olson's site, and swapping out the Hovlands for a more lively cap. I won't know if and until I get around to experimenting/tweeking. On the flip side, swapping out the Hovlands might lose some of that lushness, I don't know.
Also, there is very little guidance given on the Ariel site for stuffing the chambers...what does "loosely filled" mean? ... something I found irritating. So more tweeking again is needed (which I never did either).
If you're a detail freak, I don't think this is the speaker for you. But the Ariel is a really LUSH sounding speaker, at least mine are.
I personally think that anyone who thinks this speaker doesn't sound good did something very wrong in building them.
Oz_Audio said:
Add some words and we can do an article on the T-Line site
The author of the TLb has dropped out of sight -- my attempts to contact him have been unsuccessful. He was reclusive, and elderly and was acting strangely before he dissappeared, so we may not hear from him again.
dave
Thats a pity. The drawings he sent me last year looked really good, but unfortunately, they were not complete in any detail. (did he send these to you?) How about posting these on your web site to inspire someone better than myself to complete the project. These were the best looking speakers I have seen, a beautiful design.
I will try to get some words down and some photos done. I will be rebuilding the boxes in the future so I can get the tweeter and woofer closer together and make a better base using solid stone from a local stone mason, the face plate on my AKSA will be the same stone. I will also use a Scan Speak 9700 forward facing tweeter and use Crescendo bypassing caps.
I will keep you informed.
Oz
I will try to get some words down and some photos done. I will be rebuilding the boxes in the future so I can get the tweeter and woofer closer together and make a better base using solid stone from a local stone mason, the face plate on my AKSA will be the same stone. I will also use a Scan Speak 9700 forward facing tweeter and use Crescendo bypassing caps.
I will keep you informed.
Oz
Banned
Joined 2002
Banned
Joined 2002
JasonL said:
Both are TLs so the hole at the end of the line is called a terminus, not a port even thou in the case of a mass-loaded TL or TQWT they look exactly like the port on a BR. Because the 1/4 wave enclosure doesn't behave the same as a BR i like to use the different nomenclature.
dave
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.