Has anyone attempted to build high end studio monitors? - diyAudio
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Old 5th September 2004, 01:21 PM   #1
Optical is offline Optical  New Zealand
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Default Has anyone attempted to build high end studio monitors?

The sort you could say rivals genelec or mackie monitors..
I would be very interested to hear about it
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Old 5th September 2004, 11:11 PM   #2
Optical is offline Optical  New Zealand
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My reason being that i have recently found a place that sells the same drivers as a mackie hr824 (vifa drivers) and am considering buying some and making myself some studio monitors..

problem is the drivers are only good from 37 - 4000Hz, so i will need some drivers for the high end.. any suggestions here?

also in studio monitors how much of the flat sound they make is to do with the electronics? or cabinet design?
thanks
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Old 6th September 2004, 11:25 AM   #3
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Firstly what do you want it for? This is important. In studio monitoring use, they are used nearfield so there is much room interaction and so a very flat response is more readily retained. For normal hifi, this is of less benefit due to the impact of the room.

A flat response is mainly achieved by the selection of the drivers and the design of the crossover. I have seen a kit with Scan Speak drivers including the Carbon Fibre midbass which is not the most smooth driver, but it was made to a +/- 1.2db response and sounded very accurate. To get this kind of response one tends to do things like use notch filters. Some argue that this is not necessarily the most musical solution, and that such a flat response may not sound better. I tend to agree.

If you paired the Vifa P13 with say the Vifa XT tweeter or Scan Speak 9500 it shouldn't be too hard to get a flat response. You could then add an active woofer, say an 8."
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Old 6th September 2004, 12:10 PM   #4
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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Check out the Earthworks monitors. I´d recommend the Peerless 6.5HDS driver with the Vifa ringradiator.

/Peter
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Old 6th September 2004, 01:10 PM   #5
phs is offline phs  Australia
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hey optical
they wouldnt happen to be vifa 8's would they?

jaycar here in AU marketed them as "WOW! drivers used in the HR824!" im not 100% sold on that, but they were originally $100AU then moved to $150AU.

the problem you might consider is finding a tweeter that integrates well, a few designs cross the 8 over as high as physically possible, thus making it sound less than desirable. depending on the budget you could go for the XT or spend into something nice, scan-speak?

the next problem is physical size, mackies have an oval passive radiator in the back that really gives it that fat low end. also within the box they cram two ampliers, 100W?? + 150W?? PLUS active equalisation and 24dB crossovers. unless you are pretty skilled its going to be damn hard replicating it.

going the additional sub option would be much easier. or having bi-amplified, active xo'd racks hiding away.

for something cheaper and ultra flat i recommend Zaphod's take on
the classic D25/17 combo plus a big 12" under the desk
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Old 6th September 2004, 01:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Has anyone attempted to build high end studio monitors?

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by Optical
The sort you could say rivals genelec or mackie monitors..
I would be very interested to hear about it
Well, the generic Genlec and Mackie nearfield monitors are pretty prosaic. I would never bother using then for an actual MIX, merley as secondary/tertiary minimum quality monitor. The bigger Genlec are pretty good but I'd probably still prfer a big PMC or ATC or a MEG.

Quote:
Originally posted by Optical
also in studio monitors how much of the flat sound they make is to do with the electronics? or cabinet design?
thanks
The "flat" sound (as in poorely delineated dynamically, compressed and lacking 3 dimensionality) small nearfiled "minimum quality" monitors make has much to do with the electronics and with the fact that often fairly poor drivers are used. The point to recognise is that they are intended to illustrate the average Mid-Fi Speaker and/or car system. Serious Studio monitors tend to be very different animals.

Sayonara
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Old 6th September 2004, 08:42 PM   #7
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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KYW,

I think he meant "flat" as in flat Fr. response.

I also must say that for nearfield and mixing some material, a good quality two way goes a long way when you learn to work with it.... I know you don´t like these kind of boxes though .

/Peter
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Old 6th September 2004, 11:01 PM   #8
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Hi Optical - I run a project studio for which I built reference monitors using Jordan 92s and stereo subs. Description and photo here: System Pictures & Description
These things beat all near-field monitors I have heard. Another post of mine here: First Impression: GM's Jordan JX92S MLTL Speaker
describes the system in more detail. Basically I like closed cabs, fullrange drivers and stereo subs, and hate the sound of midrange crossovers. I'm in the minority here but then I'm doing nearfield studio monitoring, not home theater or room auditioned hi-fi. Also, my external AD/DA converter is much better than most CD players...

NNK
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Old 7th September 2004, 03:29 AM   #9
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I bought a pair of these drivers off of eBay a while back, with the same idea of cloning the Mackie HR824s.
The idea was to use them as monitors due to their advertised flat frequency response. Modeling the drivers in various box configurations I could not get very close to what Mackie advertised, even starting with similar dimensions. I tried ported boxes with and without Passive Radiators. In the models the bass wasn’t there without going quite a bit bigger. I read reports of the HR824s having a “mushy bass.”
I had better luck using Marin King’s MathCad models for Transmission Lines. An ML TL design was able to model better than the Mackie design. I ended up with an f3 ~ 27 Hz. and a very flat & smooth response from 30 Hz up. However, this was at the cost of a much larger box (45 x 9 x 14.5625).
I built this using North Creek Music D25 Tweeters, and am happy with the result.
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Old 7th September 2004, 04:54 AM   #10
Optical is offline Optical  New Zealand
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Hi guys,
yes it was those jaycar vifa drivers i was looking at, although they seem to have stopped stocking them here now but even so..

yes im interested in building monitors for a home studio with a flat a frequency responce as i can get, i have big PA speakers too so i basically want them for mastering tracks well enough to sound good on any speakers..

the electronics isnt really a problem, i know heaps more about the amplifiers involved than i do about the speakers, until now ive just gone with 'it is loud? -yes, does it sound good? yes' well then i like it..
but for nearfields that philosphy is not really applicable..

with those vifa drivers jaycar had i realised they would need some kind of tweeter to accompany them, but seeing as i probably cant get them any more then im open to any experiance building flat nearfield reference monitors..

thanks for your input!
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