I'm going to be getting a sub who's primary duty will be reproducing bass in the bottom 2 octaves for music reproduction, and will also be used for home theater duty. More than 90% of the time it will be musical however. I plan on using the 500w parts express amp
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-806
Or it's 1000w brother.
So with 500w @ 4ohm to deal with, and doing a bit of research, these woofers came up:
1. Single Adire Tempest
2. Single Adire Maelstrom
3. Dual Peerless XLS12
4. DualTC Sounds TC2+ (I can get my hands on these from Direct from TC)
Madisound people tended to recommend the peerless, and then the TC2+ after that, whereas I have experience with the tempest (used it for a while in a car environment, and folks over at other forums recommended it or the maelstrom)
Room wise I can fit reasonable ported boxes for any of these. I'm looking for something that can play at very high levels (110+ 30hz when room loaded), can play the entire bottom 2 octaves and hopefully a bit more, and has amazing transient response to boot.
Here's my current thinking:
1. Tempest will be better than maelstrom because the tempest excels at reproducing low low frequencies, negating some of the effect of having a larger sub, and I'm worried about the 18 extending as high as I would like it to, and the tempest on 500w should get loud enough to satisfy me, negating the other benefit of having the larger sub.
2. Pair of peerless XLS will be slightly underpowered (can make up for this in box design, or step up to the 1000watt sub), will have the best upwards extension of the bunch (people have run these up to like 500hz?), and will probably have SPL advantage due to more cone area. Rumored to be the best SQ of the bunch, but can't really verify that. Another benefit is that later on if I decide to do stereo bass (3-way towers), I can adapt these to be the subs in the towers, saving some money.
3. I know like nothing about the TC2+, a group of people on madisound recommended it to me as being better SQ than the peerless, but I dunno. I can get one for by far the cheapest of the bunch, but I have some doubts of a single 12 satisfying my needs when I listen to bass heavy music (gotta keep some of that car audio mentality, even though I'm out of car audio, ya know?)
Anyone have any experience/suggestions? BTW, the front speakers are current audax aerogel 6.5s mated with audax tweet, but this WILL change eventually, so.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-806
Or it's 1000w brother.
So with 500w @ 4ohm to deal with, and doing a bit of research, these woofers came up:
1. Single Adire Tempest
2. Single Adire Maelstrom
3. Dual Peerless XLS12
4. DualTC Sounds TC2+ (I can get my hands on these from Direct from TC)
Madisound people tended to recommend the peerless, and then the TC2+ after that, whereas I have experience with the tempest (used it for a while in a car environment, and folks over at other forums recommended it or the maelstrom)
Room wise I can fit reasonable ported boxes for any of these. I'm looking for something that can play at very high levels (110+ 30hz when room loaded), can play the entire bottom 2 octaves and hopefully a bit more, and has amazing transient response to boot.
Here's my current thinking:
1. Tempest will be better than maelstrom because the tempest excels at reproducing low low frequencies, negating some of the effect of having a larger sub, and I'm worried about the 18 extending as high as I would like it to, and the tempest on 500w should get loud enough to satisfy me, negating the other benefit of having the larger sub.
2. Pair of peerless XLS will be slightly underpowered (can make up for this in box design, or step up to the 1000watt sub), will have the best upwards extension of the bunch (people have run these up to like 500hz?), and will probably have SPL advantage due to more cone area. Rumored to be the best SQ of the bunch, but can't really verify that. Another benefit is that later on if I decide to do stereo bass (3-way towers), I can adapt these to be the subs in the towers, saving some money.
3. I know like nothing about the TC2+, a group of people on madisound recommended it to me as being better SQ than the peerless, but I dunno. I can get one for by far the cheapest of the bunch, but I have some doubts of a single 12 satisfying my needs when I listen to bass heavy music (gotta keep some of that car audio mentality, even though I'm out of car audio, ya know?)
Anyone have any experience/suggestions? BTW, the front speakers are current audax aerogel 6.5s mated with audax tweet, but this WILL change eventually, so.
I have both the Tempest and Maelstrom. Both are great for HT, but the Maelstrom is much much better for music. Adire crosses the Maelstrom at 400hz in their Hurricane set up. No way I would think of asking a Tempest to go up anywhere near that high. I have my Maelstrom in the big EBS 320L vented cab. If I'm playing music exceptionally loud, I stuff the ports.
So, given the fact that I have the room/money/budget/power for the maelstrom, you don't see a reason why I should even consider a tempest?
How much power do you have to yours? (should I get the 500w amp or the 1000w amp basically).
Any thoughts on making a comparison to the pair of peerless or the pair of TC Sounds?
How much power do you have to yours? (should I get the 500w amp or the 1000w amp basically).
Any thoughts on making a comparison to the pair of peerless or the pair of TC Sounds?
Consider this
I went through the same quandry over the last 2 years. I had a Definitive Tech. 18" sub that had given me fine service. I went through and through possible kits and designs. After tons of research, I ended up with the big HSU 1220 units with their (at 2 ohms) 800W amp. A truly spectacular choice. If budget is an issue, consider one of these subs. I can't recommend them enough. I'm a classical HDCD and SACD listener. I use SEAS Thor for the mains.
I went through the same quandry over the last 2 years. I had a Definitive Tech. 18" sub that had given me fine service. I went through and through possible kits and designs. After tons of research, I ended up with the big HSU 1220 units with their (at 2 ohms) 800W amp. A truly spectacular choice. If budget is an issue, consider one of these subs. I can't recommend them enough. I'm a classical HDCD and SACD listener. I use SEAS Thor for the mains.
http://www.mfk-projects.com/tc2+.htm
But I wonder what happens if you play music that is lower in frequency than Fs...
EDIT: The XLS will play louder with a given amount of power, but the TC2+ will ultimately play louder.
But I wonder what happens if you play music that is lower in frequency than Fs...
EDIT: The XLS will play louder with a given amount of power, but the TC2+ will ultimately play louder.
454Casual, yes I saw that before, along with madisounds recommendation it's one of the reasons why it's on the list. peerless is still on the list though because they are more readily available, and designs are easier to find. I guess I could safely cross it off the list though, since I have a source the the tc2+'s and I got somebody helping me with designs.
Anybody like blueprint? acoustic-visions has some 1803s left.
I'm crossing tempest off the list because maelstrom definetely seems like a superior driver
Maelstrom
Pair of TC2+
Blueprint 1803
EDIT: what do you mean by your edit?
Anybody like blueprint? acoustic-visions has some 1803s left.
I'm crossing tempest off the list because maelstrom definetely seems like a superior driver
Maelstrom
Pair of TC2+
Blueprint 1803
EDIT: what do you mean by your edit?
k, maelstrom limits me to 500w, and I really think that I want to go ridiculous and go 1000 (yes I can go 1000 w a maelstrom, but it's limiting to an extent)
I can do 1000 with the tc2+s, I can also do 1000 to the blueprint 18.
Would an 18 be appropriate for audio? Sure huge cones are great for theater, but maybe the large cone would be harmful for audio? Would 15 be a better choice? And since the tc2+s are probably going to be much more musical. Just worried about output versus the blueprint though with it's huge xmax advantage.
Then there's the sadhara sale on adire. http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/SadharaPageFrameText.htm
Anybody have any opinions about this?
I can do 1000 with the tc2+s, I can also do 1000 to the blueprint 18.
Would an 18 be appropriate for audio? Sure huge cones are great for theater, but maybe the large cone would be harmful for audio? Would 15 be a better choice? And since the tc2+s are probably going to be much more musical. Just worried about output versus the blueprint though with it's huge xmax advantage.
Then there's the sadhara sale on adire. http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/SadharaPageFrameText.htm
Anybody have any opinions about this?
The resonant frequencies look too high for me on the Blueprint and TC2+ to be great HT subs. I like the subsonics for HT. 1000 watts to dual TC2+'s or dual XLS's doesn't look like it will keep up with 500 watts applied to a single maelstrom due to the difference in sensitivity especially below 50hz. I know for a fact that it is very musical because I have one and it outshines shivas and tempests for musicality. I think the Peerless and TC units are more like a shiva or tempest than like a maelstrom.
Something not discussed is that if you plan to cross at higher than 100hz or so, you really need stereo subs.
Something not discussed is that if you plan to cross at higher than 100hz or so, you really need stereo subs.
i only plan on covering 2 octaves, and it's not for HT, at all, audio only.
Sadhara looks nice, but I might as well just do a blueprint 15 and enclosure for the same price. Should output more..
Blueprint I like because it cam handle the power that I want to give it, has a very high efficiency, and I shouldn't have any problems fitting the enclosure for it.
Maelstrom limits me to 500w, and even though it's very efficient, I can basically gain 3db just by going with the blueprint and doubling power, and probably more because of more xmax.
The TC2+, while very musical, is FAR less efficient that the maelstrom/blueprint. Even the maelstrom on 500w would probably at least compare to TC2+ on 1000w.
There's also the tumult, though i don't know if it's worth the extra $200 to go with this over the blueprint. XBL2 and almost 10mm more xmax is nice. Less efficiency, but I'm sure the extra displacement more than makes up for that (more than 5L from a single driver is ridiculous
Seems pretty obvious to me that the blueprint would be superior to the maelstrom, and is the perfect driver for me? tons of output, high high efficiency, reasonable box size, extension both up and down to where i want (20-80hz).
Anybody care to disagree?
Sadhara looks nice, but I might as well just do a blueprint 15 and enclosure for the same price. Should output more..
Blueprint I like because it cam handle the power that I want to give it, has a very high efficiency, and I shouldn't have any problems fitting the enclosure for it.
Maelstrom limits me to 500w, and even though it's very efficient, I can basically gain 3db just by going with the blueprint and doubling power, and probably more because of more xmax.
The TC2+, while very musical, is FAR less efficient that the maelstrom/blueprint. Even the maelstrom on 500w would probably at least compare to TC2+ on 1000w.
There's also the tumult, though i don't know if it's worth the extra $200 to go with this over the blueprint. XBL2 and almost 10mm more xmax is nice. Less efficiency, but I'm sure the extra displacement more than makes up for that (more than 5L from a single driver is ridiculous
Seems pretty obvious to me that the blueprint would be superior to the maelstrom, and is the perfect driver for me? tons of output, high high efficiency, reasonable box size, extension both up and down to where i want (20-80hz).
Anybody care to disagree?
Below Fs distortion increases greatly.Tune above Fs unless you enjoy tempting distortion increases!(im tuned 7hz below Fs with my jbl2226,its a low distortion device already so it sounds fine)
Huge Vd is only so useful if the driver is 87db efficient and the last 500w-1kw power increase (as you model it in your box program),actualy results in 1db increase in SPL due to power compression.
Operating drivers near their RMS limits will incur losses from 5db+ for typical 12" PRO units,expect HT to be worse-how much worse,who knows.
Put the drivers in box program. Choose the drivers carefully, considering usage,linearity,what can you fit/be bothered hauling around, SPL etc etc.
the mfkprojects guy didnt test his drivers of similar size,very fairly so its hard to make direct compares.
Cheers!
Huge Vd is only so useful if the driver is 87db efficient and the last 500w-1kw power increase (as you model it in your box program),actualy results in 1db increase in SPL due to power compression.
Operating drivers near their RMS limits will incur losses from 5db+ for typical 12" PRO units,expect HT to be worse-how much worse,who knows.
Put the drivers in box program. Choose the drivers carefully, considering usage,linearity,what can you fit/be bothered hauling around, SPL etc etc.
the mfkprojects guy didnt test his drivers of similar size,very fairly so its hard to make direct compares.
Cheers!
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