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Old 15th August 2004, 09:38 PM   #11
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
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I think the magnum bass box plus 2 coax in sealed will work OK. Haven't tried the Seleniums, but FWIW the Eminence 12cx is pretty good.

Why not use two bass boxes? This will make things *much* easier WRT crossing over to satellites. IMO it will sound better as well. You can't have too much bass.

The regular kappa 15 sounds very good in a golden ratio (.62:1:1.62) cabinet with a slot vent at the bottom. With the required volume (EBS-ish), it ends up being a ~30" tall tower, which gives the midbass a bit more punch. (without delving further into details... )

AFA minimizing weight, I strongly recommend regular fir plywood - void free. The "shop birch" stuff is usually adequate. Glass/stryofoam sounds good, and I appreciate the techno look myself, but unless you make the glass quite thick, it's going to be super resonant.

Also, sure you don't need anything below 80hz or so, but techno etc sounds much better if you can get extension to 50hz at least.

GB
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Old 15th August 2004, 10:20 PM   #12
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Regarding the Eminence Beta 12CX. If you are going to go vented or sealed, the 8" or 10" would result in a significantly smaller box due to the much lower Qts of each. Also, you might as well go with the Adire HE kits which use the CX drivers but you get the whole kit and a better custom tweeter for about the same price as buying them separately. For dipole go with the HE12.1 , sealed the HE10.1 , and the HE8.1 needs vented to get flat down to 80hz. Personally I'd go with 2 subs in stereo and that will give you the option of crossing higher.

IMO, you do NEED below 80hz. My HE8.1's are flat down to 80 and really need sub support for full sound.
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Old 16th August 2004, 12:26 AM   #13
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When I hear the low notes, much of the attack of bass and drum is a lot higher than sub range... maybe 100Hz or so. I think low end extension is only required for the decay and sustain portions. I will grant that the sound will be fuller with extra low end, but I don't think it's necessary for generating the initial thump which is what most club goers notice anyway. There are very few (like me and others on this board) that will ever notice the quality of the sound.

:)ensen.

PS: I wrote 60Hz, not 80.
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Old 16th August 2004, 12:59 AM   #14
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Purple,

Sorry, I picked up the 80 from Greg's post. I agree totally that alot of "attack" is above 100hz or so, but for club type music I think that the 50-100hz range is what gives you the physical impact which is crutial.

You're also right in that most people don't notice just how bad the boom boom boom often is, but maybe we can help change that by guiding people to build good sounding rigs. You can DIY good sound cheaper than you can buy something off the shelf that only booms.
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Old 16th August 2004, 07:52 AM   #15
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I am the first to say that holger's system should be as good as possible. Sorry to imply the opposite. Rather, I meant that with a system that is meant to be small and portable, certain compromises must be made and one of the easiest ways to lower bulk is to give up low end extension, especially since most audiences won't notice.

Unlike others, I don't think that low end creates "thump" but rather, excursion which requires big peaks from the amps. IOW, if you have only 500W available from all amps, at least 300W for the sub while the sats/mains/mons should get maybe 100W each, especially since they are already flown above ear level.

:)ensen.
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Old 16th August 2004, 04:56 PM   #16
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Default why Im looking at selenium

I think the seleniums would be better at handeling loudness,and they are a bit cheaper then the adire he kits.
But the smallest selenium is 12" while the adire also have 10"s and 8"s on the menu.The saved money could be put on a better subdriver.
Heres what i have:2 pa amps at 2x150 and 2x200(bridgeable) and a active xover.And on top of that about 900 bucks and great woodworking skills.
I also have a stationwagon and a bad back.Thanks you all.
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Old 16th August 2004, 06:01 PM   #17
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Those selenium coax's look pretty good, but I don't know what they sound like and they don't show up on LSDG's list of recommended drivers at http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-8.php3 . Plus the kit comes with everything but the wood, so the $20 or so saved for a pair of drivers over the Adire kit may not be a real savings. They look to be about the same in terms of power handling and efficiency.
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Old 16th August 2004, 06:34 PM   #18
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A pair of Hurricanes with the maelstrom woofers in separate small sealed cabs is in your price range and should work great. It could also give you the option of going open baffle on the tops.

The selenium 12" coax requires double the cab volume of the 10" eminence beta10cx due to the much higher Qts, so that'sw something to consider.

To me the question is how much bottom end extension do you need. What kind of music is this for? If you don't need something that goes as low as the maelstrom, then there's plenty of cheaper PA woofers that could fit the bill with either of the 2 options above as your tops. I think it would be best with 2 woofers, then you can XO higher to the tops and they won't get strained to play at high levels, but the selenium coax 12" or eminence beta10cx will get you down to 80-100hz in a sealed alignment making a single sub possible.
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Old 16th August 2004, 07:22 PM   #19
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
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Maelstroms wouldn't work that great IMO. Trust me on this... I'm semi experienced at live sound, etc. There's a huge hit in efficiency when you go to a home stereo type subwoofer, and that sort of low end extension just isn't needed. Also, it's nice to have woofers that can play pretty well up into the mids. With a higher crossover, power handling is improved. No way would I run an 8 or 10" down to 80cps, except for a coffeehouse gig.

Eminence is hard to beat for bang for the buck. A pair of Kappa15LF would do fine, or maybe Magnums if the buckage is there.

YMMV etc....

GB
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Old 17th August 2004, 11:08 AM   #20
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If you want the a portable and lightweight bass cabinet then one approach is:

* curved walls so they can be thinner
* plenty of VD in the driver
* no more bass extension than you need

Putting these together you end up with a sonosub with a 12" or 15" subdriver loaded in a 6th oder bandpass box to turn the low bass you don't need into increased efficiency. You can choose the low end extension you want with the box design, and it will be very light considering its size. Attach a handle where the driver is mounted inside the sonotube and you might even be able to carry one bass module in each hand. Attach a wider base on the bottom end for stability and you can place your satelites on top. You might attach this to a removeable base to get stability.

There is an interesting and innovative company in Australia (Whise) that have created a 100db/octave active crossover developed with the help of Neville Thiele (of TS parameters). You could cross to your sats with this crossover which will mean just about any speakers shouldn't have a problem with overexcursion.

Whise
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