Focal 10v6412

[castlesteve]

I just picked up a pair of Focal 10V6412s and would like some project ideas. Maybe a pair of Martin King MLTLs? Also do you think i can use these in a 2way application or should i use a small midrange driver such as a vifa D75 or Morel mdm55.
http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/compo/woofer/10v6412.htm
Steve.

[jleaman]

Very nice driver as Focal being my fave brand :O )

[Greg B]

Cool. Those are actually perfect for a 'traditional' open ended TL. I had once planned to do that with those very same drivers, but ended up with the more expensive 10W6452.

2 way? I don't think so, though maybe with a mid tweeter like the the Jordan JX53(?) or Fostex FF85.

I'd think a 3 way is the way to go, with the focal crossed at 700 or so. The MDM55 sounds feasible, but the crossover may be tough. You could also use a wideband cone mid, which would give you the option of true first order crossovers.

GB

[castlesteve]

Greg.
Thanks for the reply. Which design do you think would yeild the best results considering that i would like to keep the efficiency up as much as possible. I have a pair of 2.4 cu ft cabinets at the moment that i could work with. I ran them through winisd and they look good to the low 40s. Also do you have any recommendations as to a good midrange driver. Would a Fostex work or should i look to something more traditional? I would like to use a ribbon on top if possible so i will need a mid driver with good reach up top.
Cheers, Steve.

[Greg B]

Thanks for the reply. Which design do you think would yeild the best results considering that i would like to keep the efficiency up as much as possible.

I took another look at it. Actually, I think your original idea of an ML-TL will yield the flattest and most extended response at the highest efficiency. This is really just a stretched BR box. It would work fine in a 'pure' TL, but these are sort of a PITA to get right without screwing up a few, so I can't in good conscience recommend one.

I have a pair of 2.4 cu ft cabinets at the moment that i could work with. I ran them through winisd and they look good to the low 40s.

Those should work fine, but you might want to reduce the size a bit with some internal bracing and/or mass loading. It's a little on the big side for my taste. A too big box will cause a little peaking at cutoff, and a bit of a saddle at the midbass. These are the problems an ML-TL fixes. WinISD is OK for quick checks, but doesn't take into account the wave effects from the dimensions of the enclosure, among other things.

I recommend using MJK's TQWT or BR mathcad sheets available at www.quarter-wave.com. Focals work exceptionally well in tower bass reflex (ML-TL). Personally, I prefer shelf ports, but that's just me...

Also do you have any recommendations as to a good midrange driver. Would a Fostex work or should i look to something more traditional? I would like to use a ribbon on top if possible so i will need a mid driver with good reach up top.

If you want to use a ribbon, that sort of nukes the first order crossover capability a full range would give you, but a fostex like the FE108 could still work ok. So.... I'd say either the MDM55, or a good coated paper cone midrange. I notice the focal access 5A is on sale at zalytron. This mid has about the cleanest impulse response I've seen, and it's cheap. Maybe a paper seas mid would be OK.

I don't know what your crossover skill level is, but you may want to pay someone to do this one if you don't have software. So far, I like 2nd order series types best with my ribbons. That focal is a 5 ohm driver, which presents other issues.

BTW, I was mistakingly thinking of the 10V4411 originally, but they are similar, spec-wise.

GB

[castlesteve]

Greg.
I would like to try the crossover myself if possible. I have access to someone with measuring equipment who is willing to help. If it makes it easier and i can use 1st order filters i am willing to forgo the ribbon for a dome tweeter. What about using something like a pair of Fostex FE127s as mid drivers crossing to the dome tweeter.
Sorry for all the questions , Steve

[Greg B]

If it makes it easier and i can use 1st order filters i am willing to forgo the ribbon for a dome tweeter.

That does make it easier. I have a love/hate thing going with ribbons.

What about using something like a pair of Fostex FE127s as mid drivers crossing to the dome tweeter.

That should actually work really well. Textbook values may get you close, but you will need a zobel on the woofer and probably the midrange too. Crossing at ~7-800 and 3.5-4khz would be my recommendation.

I think a coat of dammar improves the fostex drivers. These really hold their own with anything, btw.

The focal 10V looks flat on axis to 3k, which means you should be able to cross over at 750 and still get 2 octaves overlap. The FE127 should go down to 188hz fine in a sealed sub box (or short TL tube if you want to get fancy), so you're covered there too.

I've noticed the new Seas tweeters have waterfalls cleaner than many ribbons and can deal with a first order crossover - at least the chambered, ferrofluid ones.

Going to the effort of time aligning the drivers with a stepped baffle or whatever is a good idea - necessary - with true first order.

GB

[hifideliger]

There is a speaker called "Triga" designed by a german diy-magazine. The built up two versions

1. 10" W-Cone + Audiom 6" + Raven Ribbon
2. 10" V-Cone + Audiom 6" + Focal TC90

Link: http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/triga.htm

Greetings, Thomas

[castlesteve]

Thanks Thomas but that is a 4 ohm speaker and i want to keep the impedence up as i will be using push pull tubes.
Steve.

[castlesteve]

Originally posted by Greg B


That does make it easier. I have a love/hate thing going with ribbons.




That should actually work really well. Textbook values may get you close, but you will need a zobel on the woofer and probably the midrange too. Crossing at ~7-800 and 3.5-4khz would be my recommendation.

I think a coat of dammar improves the fostex drivers. These really hold their own with anything, btw.

The focal 10V looks flat on axis to 3k, which means you should be able to cross over at 750 and still get 2 octaves overlap. The FE127 should go down to 188hz fine in a sealed sub box (or short TL tube if you want to get fancy), so you're covered there too.

I've noticed the new Seas tweeters have waterfalls cleaner than many ribbons and can deal with a first order crossover - at least the chambered, ferrofluid ones.

Going to the effort of time aligning the drivers with a stepped baffle or whatever is a good idea - necessary - with true first order.

GB

Thanks Greg.
Which Seas tweeters were you referring to? Also could you elaborate a little as to the time aligning the drivers. I`m assuming this refers to wavelengths and suchlike. Thanks again for taking the time to educate.
Steve.