I've never build any line arrays before and been wanting to try this route..
are there any current plans for this driver ? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-145
and maybe i could mate them with the AR buyout tweeter as well??
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=279-350
any suggestions?
I'm very new at this...but i'm willing to learn as i progress with this project.
are there any current plans for this driver ? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-145
and maybe i could mate them with the AR buyout tweeter as well??
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=279-350
any suggestions?
I'm very new at this...but i'm willing to learn as i progress with this project.
I'm listening to those 4" Pioneers right now with Dayton ribbons in 7' open baffles. They sound fantastic.
Running with a BrianGT NIGC. Adcoms, JBL's and Klipch's haven't been turned on for months...
Line array's
Running with a BrianGT NIGC. Adcoms, JBL's and Klipch's haven't been turned on for months...
Line array's
Chipco,
I just bought 40 of the PE 4 inchers and I've been looking at the PT2 planar tweeters. Is that the same tweeter you have mounted in your picture?
Also, I was considering open baffle as well with a 4th order XO to stereo subs at ~150Hz. Are you high passing your array or just letting them run free?
Nice looking speakers!
Allan
I just bought 40 of the PE 4 inchers and I've been looking at the PT2 planar tweeters. Is that the same tweeter you have mounted in your picture?
Also, I was considering open baffle as well with a 4th order XO to stereo subs at ~150Hz. Are you high passing your array or just letting them run free?
Nice looking speakers!
Allan
I'd say you might get better response from the 299-492 Infinity 4.5" and the 269-702 Onkyo Tweeter (without the phase shield) crossed over with 2nd order or higher at 4.5K-5KHz.
You'd save about a $1 per woofer, and about $1 per tweeter, so if you buy 8 each per side, you'd save $30 right there. Plus the above combo would have a descent freq response. About $80 worth of drivers....not too bad for an experiment
EDIT: Also with the above Vifa drivers, you could buy a 4" hole saw and cut perfect holes real fast.
A hole saw in case your not familar....I love these things for smaller woofers/midranges
You'd save about a $1 per woofer, and about $1 per tweeter, so if you buy 8 each per side, you'd save $30 right there. Plus the above combo would have a descent freq response. About $80 worth of drivers....not too bad for an experiment
EDIT: Also with the above Vifa drivers, you could buy a 4" hole saw and cut perfect holes real fast.
A hole saw in case your not familar....I love these things for smaller woofers/midranges
chipco3434
what you have there looks fantastic
exactly what im looking for but i want my cabinet black
would u happen to have the link to the 4" pioneers??
and is the line array open back??
i love messy wirings
aj
when do u plan to start with ur project?
it would be nice if u could get some pics of the project as it progresses..
maybe i could copy off something from u?
hybrid4door
wouldnt the high FS on that infinity woofer limits my lower midbass reponse??
i dont expect to have massive midbass from the line array...but i dont think i would want to cross the sub that high either..
btw...i dont have any plans for a sub yet
keep the suggestions coming guys...i appreciate it..
the 4" pioneer array looks promising though
oh..and im lucky that i have that exact hole saw kit..
what you have there looks fantastic
exactly what im looking for but i want my cabinet black
would u happen to have the link to the 4" pioneers??
and is the line array open back??
i love messy wirings
aj
when do u plan to start with ur project?
it would be nice if u could get some pics of the project as it progresses..
maybe i could copy off something from u?
hybrid4door
wouldnt the high FS on that infinity woofer limits my lower midbass reponse??
i dont expect to have massive midbass from the line array...but i dont think i would want to cross the sub that high either..
btw...i dont have any plans for a sub yet
keep the suggestions coming guys...i appreciate it..
the 4" pioneer array looks promising though
oh..and im lucky that i have that exact hole saw kit..
I'm working on a line array myself. Read this:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
Its Jim Griffin's guidelines for small line arrays - highly recommended.
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
Its Jim Griffin's guidelines for small line arrays - highly recommended.
I used these tweeters and like the sound better than the Onkyo's used in my first effort
Version 1
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=337688
The Daytons in Version 2
Dayton ribbon PT2
I crossed the array at 5000 with a second order Butterworth using polypro caps and air coils. In the case of a 5000 Hz cross, this puts about 90 percent of the music through the 4" drivers. I supplement with a POS sub cranked up to 180Hz. The overall effect is breathtaking. I listen to classical and rock. I enjoy high SPL's and these deliver. The open baffle thing is new to me. But the clarity is remarkable.
I used a hole saw to construct. Spray some Pledge wax on the saw. It will cut more freely. Drill the back side first a quarter inch deep and then drill from the front side to avoid breakout. It helps to drill some 1/4" holes in the hole saws kerf in the wood to give the place for the sawdust to escape. I radiused the back edge of the holes and put a slight counterbore (with a router) on the front to accept the drivers a little more flush.
You can make one set of speakers with 1 piece of 3/4" mdf veneer and four pieces of 1-1/2" material for the stiles. The baffles are 12" and the side bracing is cut on the diagonal, 9" at the bottom and 3" at the top (thus making 4 braces out of two 12" x 8' pieces). The side braces are biscuit joined to the stiles and similarly joined to the baffle. The overall height is 7'4". Be advised that this design assures absolutely no WAF.
You should start building tonight. Wire them in your den. Don't worry, if your wife bought a good vacuum, it should be able to pick up the sawdust, bits of wire, and stripped insulation from the Burber carpeting. Just don't drop the soldering iron on the floor. You will be obliged to surreptitiously purchase a throw rug from Walgreens at 2AM (they're open 24 hours!).
Knock yourself out!
Version 1
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=337688
The Daytons in Version 2
Dayton ribbon PT2
I crossed the array at 5000 with a second order Butterworth using polypro caps and air coils. In the case of a 5000 Hz cross, this puts about 90 percent of the music through the 4" drivers. I supplement with a POS sub cranked up to 180Hz. The overall effect is breathtaking. I listen to classical and rock. I enjoy high SPL's and these deliver. The open baffle thing is new to me. But the clarity is remarkable.
I used a hole saw to construct. Spray some Pledge wax on the saw. It will cut more freely. Drill the back side first a quarter inch deep and then drill from the front side to avoid breakout. It helps to drill some 1/4" holes in the hole saws kerf in the wood to give the place for the sawdust to escape. I radiused the back edge of the holes and put a slight counterbore (with a router) on the front to accept the drivers a little more flush.
You can make one set of speakers with 1 piece of 3/4" mdf veneer and four pieces of 1-1/2" material for the stiles. The baffles are 12" and the side bracing is cut on the diagonal, 9" at the bottom and 3" at the top (thus making 4 braces out of two 12" x 8' pieces). The side braces are biscuit joined to the stiles and similarly joined to the baffle. The overall height is 7'4". Be advised that this design assures absolutely no WAF.
You should start building tonight. Wire them in your den. Don't worry, if your wife bought a good vacuum, it should be able to pick up the sawdust, bits of wire, and stripped insulation from the Burber carpeting. Just don't drop the soldering iron on the floor. You will be obliged to surreptitiously purchase a throw rug from Walgreens at 2AM (they're open 24 hours!).
Knock yourself out!
wow chipco..thanks for the woodworking tips..
i really want to start on ur project now..but i cant seem to find any more pioneer buyout drivers from partsexpress..
maybe theyve ran out of them
btw...im barely 22 and no wifey yet
the only whos doing the vacuuming would be me and solely me
can i at least get the details of ur plan to keep?
the numbers are playing tricks on me at this hour
i really want to start on ur project now..but i cant seem to find any more pioneer buyout drivers from partsexpress..
maybe theyve ran out of them
btw...im barely 22 and no wifey yet
the only whos doing the vacuuming would be me and solely me
can i at least get the details of ur plan to keep?
the numbers are playing tricks on me at this hour
I let the Pioneers run free on the bottom. They're all done at 200Hz I think. That's where the (sub-par) lofi sub will almost go when turned all the way up. Close enough. WTF? They're $200 speakers after all. That wouldn't cover the cost of a converation about an IEC power cord at Audio Asylum's cable forum!
...and yes, they're open backed with lots of wires 'n stuff in plain site. However, I usually listen from the front so I don't notice.
Four inch Pioneer full range
They still have them. And the price is now down to $0.69 each. The freight will add another buck per speaker and they come in cases of 32.
They still have them. And the price is now down to $0.69 each. The freight will add another buck per speaker and they come in cases of 32.
sqlkev - I'll be starting soon. I've got the drivers and I haven't ordered the tweeters yet - I just found the PT2's this afternoon. They look to be ideal. I'm still mulling over the final build and may end up going with a sealed box. With a Q of ~.9 they give you a nice little bump at 150Hz.
Chipco - thanks for all the feedback. No WAF problems here and I can stand a whole lot of ugly.
Allan
Chipco - thanks for all the feedback. No WAF problems here and I can stand a whole lot of ugly.
Allan
much thanks for the link chipco..
is it totally necessary to do 16 per side?
what would u estimate the spl of that line array? (im not into SPL..but good composure at higher volume is good)
aj...
please let me/us know how ur project turns out..
i may very well just go with the same route as u guys
is it totally necessary to do 16 per side?
what would u estimate the spl of that line array? (im not into SPL..but good composure at higher volume is good)
aj...
please let me/us know how ur project turns out..
i may very well just go with the same route as u guys
David - sorry, I meant Qtc. Qts is ~.77 so yeah, they're doable in an OB. I kinda liked the hump at 150hz because my subs are 18 inch Daytons in 15 ft^3 MLTL's. They do okay up to 120Hz with a 4th oder XO but I haven't tried crossing them higher. I'd like to be able to leave the XO at 120hz and let the hump fill in the blanks.
sqlkev - I'll get some pics. They'll look pretty much the same as Chipco's from the front, they just may be in a box instead of an OB. I'm probably a little more anal than Chipco, so you might see 6 tweeters per side instead of 2.
According to Griffin's paper, 16 drivers wired for 8 ohms will give you about 98db/1w/1m. That's pretty nice!
Allan
sqlkev - I'll get some pics. They'll look pretty much the same as Chipco's from the front, they just may be in a box instead of an OB. I'm probably a little more anal than Chipco, so you might see 6 tweeters per side instead of 2.
According to Griffin's paper, 16 drivers wired for 8 ohms will give you about 98db/1w/1m. That's pretty nice!
Allan
hi again
i've been reading some more projects on this site and now considering maybe an array of the popular TB w3-871s
maybe 5 per side?
how would that compare to the pioneer 4" 16 per side??
obviously both projects need a sub or two to fill in the bottom end..
im planning to integrate the line array with a lambda pb12 that i already have or a pair of apex jr. or the TB w8-740c
what do you think?
honestly..i'm leaning toward the tangband project since the cost will be lower
i added 12 ribbons to the existing pioneer driver cost and wow..the ribbons really added up the project's cost
i've been reading some more projects on this site and now considering maybe an array of the popular TB w3-871s
maybe 5 per side?
how would that compare to the pioneer 4" 16 per side??
obviously both projects need a sub or two to fill in the bottom end..
im planning to integrate the line array with a lambda pb12 that i already have or a pair of apex jr. or the TB w8-740c
what do you think?
honestly..i'm leaning toward the tangband project since the cost will be lower
i added 12 ribbons to the existing pioneer driver cost and wow..the ribbons really added up the project's cost
The height of the ribbons on my line array correspond to either: (1) sitting, or (2) standing. As it works out, this covers about 100% of my placement in the room. It turns out that I spend little time (1) laying, or (2) floating. There's enough dispersion to the two ribbons to cover most situations ten feet out. I don't think it's necessary to cover the full height with the tweets.
Here's a picture of my mid-bass/HF array with the PE closeout mid-woofs and Onkyo tweeters. There's a very good reason for having the tweeter array close to the same hieght as the mid woofers and that is the nearfiled/farfield transition point. If you don't have the two lines nearly the same hieght then you'll be in the nearfield at the crossover with the midwoofs but in the farfield with the tweeters, so with the one dropping at 3dB/octave/distance doubling and the other at 6dB the relative response of the two is going to be very different.
http://hometown.aol.com/fitzmauricew/myhomepage/11.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US
http://hometown.aol.com/fitzmauricew/myhomepage/11.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US
The meaurements for the 4" drivers turn out to be about 4-1/16" center to center distance. The Onkyo C/C distance are mentioned in this thread as are connstruction details.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=333922#post333922
The onkyos have to be hand worked (cut of the plastic, cut off the caps, remove screws, etc.) to get good close spacing and prepare for mounting. I used rope caulk on the 4" drivers and back mounted the onkyos with a little silicone sealant and screws.
IMHO the PE2's sound better.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=333922#post333922
The onkyos have to be hand worked (cut of the plastic, cut off the caps, remove screws, etc.) to get good close spacing and prepare for mounting. I used rope caulk on the 4" drivers and back mounted the onkyos with a little silicone sealant and screws.
IMHO the PE2's sound better.
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