3 way ultra high output

bostarob · 26th May 2002, 05:48 AM

I am designing a speaker to play extremely loud, 120 dB realm, that gets good dispersion. Live sound apps. My current design is Eminence Kappa 15LF (I like it a lot, already have them, [Qts:.38, Vas:5 ft3, Fs: 46 Hz]) Reference efficiency is above 3%.(about 97dB at 1 w/m) Eminence rates them at 100dB at 1 w/m. I'm thinking about a 4 - 5 ft3 box tuned to resonance. The tweets are the eminece 2" tit horn drivers w/ 1" exit. Absurdly efficient. Already have both of these, so I cannot change them. Also have big huge horns. I think I can cross these as low as 1.5 kHz @ 12 dB/octave. These in a two way crossed at 1500 would lack in the mids. I want to make it a three way so I can get good dispersion and clear mids. I don't have a mid yet, but I'm looking at the eminence alpha 6 midrange as a possibility. I like how it won't take up very much room on the already very large baffle, and its frequency responce. Although it isn't as efficient as the woofer, maybe bandpass gain will make up for it? Any crossover advice, or any advice at all? (I've never done anything with 3 ways)
-andy

JoeBob · 26th May 2002, 05:52 AM

If the mids aren't efficient enough, you could always just use multiple drivers...

Thatch_Ear · 26th May 2002, 03:42 PM

Since the Kappa will go up to 4K and the Compression driver down to 1.5 why do you want a mid? This stuff is made to take a beating so crossing at 3 to 3.5 aught to make it plenty easy on the drivers. If you still want a 3 way I would stay with the Eminence since all the cone drivers seem to be in the same ballpark as far as efficiency goes. I would personally use an L-pad on the compression driver, but that is just my tastes.

planet10 · 26th May 2002, 07:37 PM

My buddy Chris used the Eminence 6 in a 3-way mod to a set of AMT-1s. It works well. If more quality and efficency is required the Audax PR17 (the paper is better than the aero gel) is even better (at more money). When i was doing proPA we used the Audax extensively.

I'd suggest using then from about 350-400 Hz up to 2k -- they will go higher but a horn is only designed to cover a certain range. I am somewhat surprised that the 2" compression driver & horn only goes down to 1.5k -- these are usually designed for working down to 500 or 800 k in which case a nice active 2-way system would be possible (big huge horn usually means goes low).

XO -- go active. Even if you have to build the amps yourself. The horns won't need much -- a 25 w chip amp would do the trick (<$100 if you DIY) but you need something like 200W to achieve your desired SPL in the bottom -- absolute best for the ap would be a Bryston 4B (when i was doing PA we used 2x4B and 1x3B on each side -- with a Quad 303 as back-up for the top).

dave

bostarob · 27th May 2002, 05:23 AM

I like the audax's. I didn't know that they made pro stuff. The PR170M0 is $70 at madisound. Not bad. I'm willing to pay a little more for nice mids. Where can I find a pic of them, audax.com didn't have it.

Tell me more about active XO.

Built in amps are too complicated for this project. I want to make it bi-amp compatible.
thanks
-andy

bostarob · 27th May 2002, 05:31 AM

I think the horn will go lower. haven't tried.

Although a 2 way with the drivers I have would work, I chose a 3 way design because a 15" cone loses off axis responce as frequency increases, and a little light cone would have better sounding and better dispersed. Mids than a big giant one.

Would passive eq defeat the benefits of biamping if I were to biamp?
-andy

planet10 · 27th May 2002, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bostarob
Would passive eq defeat the benefits of biamping if I were to biamp?

somewhat.

dave

bostarob · 29th May 2002, 02:50 AM

Thanks, Dave

What are the surrounds and baskets made of?
-andy
basket looks cast but I can't tell.

planet10 · 29th May 2002, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bostarob
What are the surrounds and baskets made of?

Flat treated foam (these have LOW excursion). Cast Aluminum

dave

planet10 · 29th May 2002, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bostarob
Built in amps are too complicated for this project. I want to make it bi-amp compatible.

Just run terminals out to the back from each speaker. Use the XO, active or passive, outside the box.

Quote:

Tell me more about active XO.

More systems should be active.

Active XO is before the power amps, of which you have one for each speaker. It has some excellent benefits.

I have a set of Active XO links on my website. There are basic overviews, pictures, projects, kits...

dave

26th May 2002, 05:48 AM	#1
bostarob diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baltimore	3 way ultra high output I am designing a speaker to play extremely loud, 120 dB realm, that gets good dispersion. Live sound apps. My current design is Eminence Kappa 15LF (I like it a lot, already have them, [Qts:.38, Vas:5 ft3, Fs: 46 Hz]) Reference efficiency is above 3%.(about 97dB at 1 w/m) Eminence rates them at 100dB at 1 w/m. I'm thinking about a 4 - 5 ft3 box tuned to resonance. The tweets are the eminece 2" tit horn drivers w/ 1" exit. Absurdly efficient. Already have both of these, so I cannot change them. Also have big huge horns. I think I can cross these as low as 1.5 kHz @ 12 dB/octave. These in a two way crossed at 1500 would lack in the mids. I want to make it a three way so I can get good dispersion and clear mids. I don't have a mid yet, but I'm looking at the eminence alpha 6 midrange as a possibility. I like how it won't take up very much room on the already very large baffle, and its frequency responce. Although it isn't as efficient as the woofer, maybe bandpass gain will make up for it? Any crossover advice, or any advice at all? (I've never done anything with 3 ways) -andy

26th May 2002, 03:42 PM	#3
Thatch_Ear diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dallas,Tx	Since the Kappa will go up to 4K and the Compression driver down to 1.5 why do you want a mid? This stuff is made to take a beating so crossing at 3 to 3.5 aught to make it plenty easy on the drivers. If you still want a 3 way I would stay with the Eminence since all the cone drivers seem to be in the same ballpark as far as efficiency goes. I would personally use an L-pad on the compression driver, but that is just my tastes. __________________ Thatch

26th May 2002, 07:37 PM	#4
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 5	My buddy Chris used the Eminence 6 in a 3-way mod to a set of AMT-1s. It works well. If more quality and efficency is required the Audax PR17 (the paper is better than the aero gel) is even better (at more money). When i was doing proPA we used the Audax extensively. I'd suggest using then from about 350-400 Hz up to 2k -- they will go higher but a horn is only designed to cover a certain range. I am somewhat surprised that the 2" compression driver & horn only goes down to 1.5k -- these are usually designed for working down to 500 or 800 k in which case a nice active 2-way system would be possible (big huge horn usually means goes low). XO -- go active. Even if you have to build the amps yourself. The horns won't need much -- a 25 w chip amp would do the trick (<$100 if you DIY) but you need something like 200W to achieve your desired SPL in the bottom -- absolute best for the ap would be a Bryston 4B (when i was doing PA we used 2x4B and 1x3B on each side -- with a Quad 303 as back-up for the top). dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

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26th May 2002, 05:52 AM	#2
JoeBob diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Montreal, Canada	If the mids aren't efficient enough, you could always just use multiple drivers...

27th May 2002, 05:23 AM	#5
bostarob diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baltimore	I like the audax's. I didn't know that they made pro stuff. The PR170M0 is $70 at madisound. Not bad. I'm willing to pay a little more for nice mids. Where can I find a pic of them, audax.com didn't have it. Tell me more about active XO. Built in amps are too complicated for this project. I want to make it bi-amp compatible. thanks -andy

27th May 2002, 05:31 AM	#6
bostarob diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baltimore	I think the horn will go lower. haven't tried. Although a 2 way with the drivers I have would work, I chose a 3 way design because a 15" cone loses off axis responce as frequency increases, and a little light cone would have better sounding and better dispersed. Mids than a big giant one. Would passive eq defeat the benefits of biamping if I were to biamp? -andy

29th May 2002, 02:50 AM	#8
bostarob diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baltimore	Thanks, Dave What are the surrounds and baskets made of? -andy basket looks cast but I can't tell.

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