This is my very first attempt at a review. However i will give it the old college try.
I recently git the DIY bug, and was searching for a project. I did the Dayton III from PE, and they were ok. Made the best out of a little money, and my son loves them for whatever it is he is listening to these days. However, my tastes are a little more demanding as can be witnessed by the shear volume of high-end commercial equipment I have bought, and have cluttering our home.
My musical tastes are pretty vaired everything from Mozart to the Violent Femmes to Lynard Skynard. However, my real love is Jazz - Female Vocal type - just like it - dont know why. Sade, Diana Krall, Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Cimone, etc, etc.
Well back to the review. I have always been pleased with several sets of speakers that I own - Polk Audio 12B's, Quad 57's, DCM Time Windows. Sonus Faber Parvas, etc. etc.
My favorites have always been the old tried and true Quad 57,s due to their richness and great tonality in the types of music I love. However, I must say that the Fostex FF165K used in the BK-16's is one awesome little driver. I am sitting here now listening to Sade's "Jezebel", and it is like I am hearing it for the first time, I swear she will walk over and touch me any moment. The vocals seem to wash over you like a nice warm bath - not a hot shower - where your intention is to become clean and exit. The music the speakers produces makes you want to sink into the tub, and relax.
I have driven these units with several amps - Decware Zen Tube, Old ESS Vintage 250 WPC deal, Couple of Different NAD and Adcom units. Have to say that my favorite combination is the BK-16's with the Zen. Just sounds right. The fact that the Madisoun Kit is 95DB efficient helps alot too. By the way these things even sound awesome with an old cheap Kenwood Receiver that I have - kind of scary they sound better with the kenwood receiver that with a coulpe lot higher end amps.
Source was Kavent CD-831 CDP - another fantastic value!
Anyway back to the music - which in the end is all we want anyway. Well the music is all you will get. Detail is staggering, Sound Stage is better than the SF parvas for which I paid many, many, many times more. Dynamics put everything other speakers I've listened to in the proper place - which is NOT in my listening room. I know there are many Lowther and Manger fans in these forums - and with good reason. The Lowthers are definitely louder - more efficient - past that I can see no reason to spend the money for them when drivers such as the Fostex FF165K exist.
The reason I was prompted to write this review is simple, My wife and I are huge Sade fans, and have listened to her music for countless hours in my listening room. While she has been warmed by this music on other speaker systems, hearing 'Jezebel' on the BK-16's brought her to tears. I asked her if it was that bad, and she simply replied " I have never heard the level of her sadness in such detail."
Well i think that sums it up. Sound that will have the wife in tears (in a good way). The sound is very easing - though efficient- and tends to prompt you to become a musical sponge. Does that make sense? Anyway - I had planned to give these as a gift to my younger brother in a couple of weeks for his birthday. However, my wife and I agree that a Gift Certificate will be just fine!
Tom at Madisound is great!! Very helpful, and knows a ton. The BK-16's are a GREAT, GREAT value at just $650.00 for the entire kit including cabinets pre-cut.
You can view the kit by going to www.madisound.com and clicking on the left side of the page. Go to the "Kits" section. They do not accept web orders - only by phone. Anyway, it is best to call as Tom can answer any and all questions you might have.
If you are looking for a very satisfying project - this is it!! Go ahead make your significant other cry = you'll be glad you did!!
Good luck on all of your projects, and I hope you enjoy the music as much as I do.
Happy DIYing!
JeffG
I recently git the DIY bug, and was searching for a project. I did the Dayton III from PE, and they were ok. Made the best out of a little money, and my son loves them for whatever it is he is listening to these days. However, my tastes are a little more demanding as can be witnessed by the shear volume of high-end commercial equipment I have bought, and have cluttering our home.
My musical tastes are pretty vaired everything from Mozart to the Violent Femmes to Lynard Skynard. However, my real love is Jazz - Female Vocal type - just like it - dont know why. Sade, Diana Krall, Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Cimone, etc, etc.
Well back to the review. I have always been pleased with several sets of speakers that I own - Polk Audio 12B's, Quad 57's, DCM Time Windows. Sonus Faber Parvas, etc. etc.
My favorites have always been the old tried and true Quad 57,s due to their richness and great tonality in the types of music I love. However, I must say that the Fostex FF165K used in the BK-16's is one awesome little driver. I am sitting here now listening to Sade's "Jezebel", and it is like I am hearing it for the first time, I swear she will walk over and touch me any moment. The vocals seem to wash over you like a nice warm bath - not a hot shower - where your intention is to become clean and exit. The music the speakers produces makes you want to sink into the tub, and relax.
I have driven these units with several amps - Decware Zen Tube, Old ESS Vintage 250 WPC deal, Couple of Different NAD and Adcom units. Have to say that my favorite combination is the BK-16's with the Zen. Just sounds right. The fact that the Madisoun Kit is 95DB efficient helps alot too. By the way these things even sound awesome with an old cheap Kenwood Receiver that I have - kind of scary they sound better with the kenwood receiver that with a coulpe lot higher end amps.
Source was Kavent CD-831 CDP - another fantastic value!
Anyway back to the music - which in the end is all we want anyway. Well the music is all you will get. Detail is staggering, Sound Stage is better than the SF parvas for which I paid many, many, many times more. Dynamics put everything other speakers I've listened to in the proper place - which is NOT in my listening room. I know there are many Lowther and Manger fans in these forums - and with good reason. The Lowthers are definitely louder - more efficient - past that I can see no reason to spend the money for them when drivers such as the Fostex FF165K exist.
The reason I was prompted to write this review is simple, My wife and I are huge Sade fans, and have listened to her music for countless hours in my listening room. While she has been warmed by this music on other speaker systems, hearing 'Jezebel' on the BK-16's brought her to tears. I asked her if it was that bad, and she simply replied " I have never heard the level of her sadness in such detail."
Well i think that sums it up. Sound that will have the wife in tears (in a good way). The sound is very easing - though efficient- and tends to prompt you to become a musical sponge. Does that make sense? Anyway - I had planned to give these as a gift to my younger brother in a couple of weeks for his birthday. However, my wife and I agree that a Gift Certificate will be just fine!
Tom at Madisound is great!! Very helpful, and knows a ton. The BK-16's are a GREAT, GREAT value at just $650.00 for the entire kit including cabinets pre-cut.
You can view the kit by going to www.madisound.com and clicking on the left side of the page. Go to the "Kits" section. They do not accept web orders - only by phone. Anyway, it is best to call as Tom can answer any and all questions you might have.
If you are looking for a very satisfying project - this is it!! Go ahead make your significant other cry = you'll be glad you did!!
Good luck on all of your projects, and I hope you enjoy the music as much as I do.
Happy DIYing!
JeffG
If there is a weakness with these speakers it is definitely in the low end. They are more than ample for most types of music. However, they would not be sufficet for HT. With a sub, they are as good as anything out there.
As fare as playing loud.. My little Decware Zen created amazing sound levels with these. I have not measured them yet, but the 95DB rating may be somewhat conservative.
They seem to have a nice dispersion pattern, as the sound os nice and full almost every part of my 32X20 listening room. The more I listen, themorer I like.
JeffG
As fare as playing loud.. My little Decware Zen created amazing sound levels with these. I have not measured them yet, but the 95DB rating may be somewhat conservative.
They seem to have a nice dispersion pattern, as the sound os nice and full almost every part of my 32X20 listening room. The more I listen, themorer I like.
JeffG
In respect to using the BK-16 cabinets (which you can purchase seperately for $98 each) without the tweeters perhaps one could substitute the FF165K's for the FE166E's to improve the high frequency response. TS parameters don't mean to much to me yet as I am new to DIYing speakers but perhaps the parameters of the two drivers are close enough that a swap would work?
Regards,
Gaucho
Regards,
Gaucho
FF165K: fs=40Hz Qts=0.20 Vas=48.2 litres
FE166E: fs=50Hz Qts=0.21 Vas=54.53
Full specs:
http://www.fostex.co.jp/int/pages/sets/prodset.htm
FE166E: fs=50Hz Qts=0.21 Vas=54.53
Full specs:
http://www.fostex.co.jp/int/pages/sets/prodset.htm
JeffG, thanks for the review. I just started building a pair of BK-16s myself and was glad to read your report. I too will be pairing them with a Decware Zen amp. One quick question, did you make any modifications, like using Defelex panels or stuffing to acheive the good results? I have been contemplating giving the deflex panels a try but would like to hear from someone who has already used them with this cabinet. Also, did you use caulk to fill joint gaps? Thanks for any and all info.
dalza
dalza
As I an still fairly new to the DIY arena.. I built them just the way they come.. They do ship with the Madisound reccomended amount of stuffing.. Even separated into two equal amounts. I did not use caulk or deflex panels. This is an interesting thought though. If you do it, please let me know how it goes. I am sure you will be happy with the Bk-16's though.
Jeff
Jeff
Gaucho said:
I have used FF165K and FE166E interchangably in back horns. The 165K is warmer, ... but the FE166E (my pick) is more detailed and dynamic sounding, .. the dynamics can be a bit unsettling to those used to more conventional drivers , .
the specs say the 165K has more bass than the 166E but I wouldn't agree with that from listening. .. in fact the bass from the 166E is more detailed (maybe an artifact of ebtter treble resolution)
Were you using a tweeter with the drivers?
Given the fact the FE166E is the little brother of the very popular FE206E (an 8" driver praised for its detail and dynamics) your findings with the FE166E make perfect sense.
The FE206E is often regarded as Fostex's best driver. I am looking into getting a pair for myself.
Here's the plans for the Fostex designed and recommended cabinets:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/rec_enc_1.shtml
The Old hifi guys compared and evaluated the FF225K and alot of other Fostex drivers:
http://www.oldhifi.com/fostex.html
Gaucho said:
Not to be too negative, but I wouldn't trust the "Old hifi guys" on thier driver recomendations too much. Reading their page they seem to be pretty off the mark on some comments. Such as
>Two of these drivers have huge magnets and cast frames. They are very expensive. These are the FX200 and F200A. They are not normally available in the US, but we went to considerable lengths to get a pair of each so we could test them. They do not go high enough in the treble to be truly satisfying. And the midrange is somewhat veiled, soft, and lacking in detail compared to the FE206E or FE207E.
>
First of both of these drivers are readily available from Madisound (considerable lengths must have involved calling Wisconson), and secondly I've never heard anybody who was unhappy with them. Certainly I'm not trying to talk you out of the 206e it's supposed to be a great driver. I just wouldn't trust what they have to say about other drivers. I believe they are just trying to sell 206's and 207's and so it benifits them to say that all the rest of the drivers that Fostex sells sound awful. However if you look around a little more you will find many who having heard the 206's still enjoy listening to their 208 sigma's (which according to them "lacks detail"). Sorry for the rant.... I just hate the way they trash all the other fostex drivers and then try and sell you a Fostex FE206E in a bass reflex.
Joe
Just a small comment as a counterpoint. I've heard the BK-16 kit a few times now, and I think it sounds terrible. Well maybe not that bad, but certainly a colored presentation.
I was here when I first heard it:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/milwaukee090403.shtml
I agree with Paul's comments about it. This speaker was easily outclassed by everything else there. Even Paul's 3" tangbands sounded comparitively good from the midrange up at least.
I do however think it could sound good with a little crossover work, starting with baffle step compensation on the woofer.
On the good side, the driver was of course very efficient and had good midbass impact. But it didn't take long for the midrange glare and lack of baffle step to offend my ears. So, if it's efficiency you want, this kit has got it... in the midrange.
I do understand that full range drivers have a solid following and that their sound is an accquired taste.
This is all just personal opinion, please don't take it too hard. The enjoyment of music is highly subjective.
I was here when I first heard it:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/milwaukee090403.shtml
I agree with Paul's comments about it. This speaker was easily outclassed by everything else there. Even Paul's 3" tangbands sounded comparitively good from the midrange up at least.
I do however think it could sound good with a little crossover work, starting with baffle step compensation on the woofer.
On the good side, the driver was of course very efficient and had good midbass impact. But it didn't take long for the midrange glare and lack of baffle step to offend my ears. So, if it's efficiency you want, this kit has got it... in the midrange.
I do understand that full range drivers have a solid following and that their sound is an accquired taste.
This is all just personal opinion, please don't take it too hard. The enjoyment of music is highly subjective.
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