help choosing nice tweeters please!

[bonsai171]

hi, I would like to build a VERY high resolution 2-way, or possibly a 3-way. I currently have a pair of Dayton silk domes, http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=275-070
that are just OK.. i'm kind of dissapointed with the level of detail these produce. They are just too laid back sounding, and don't reveal the fine nuances of music very well. Obviously they will not be chosen for
the next set of speakers I'm not very familiar with the sound of the driver offerings currently available on the internet, but recently heard a pair of dynaudios (The Audience 42's)
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/audience/audience42.htm
which had very impressive detail in the treble and midrange. I would have bought them, but they are not very full-range (the bass driver
is only 5", so there isn't much bass). Any suggestions on what to do here? They were also somewhat expensive at $700 a pair. The ultimate goal is crystal clear treble and midrange, with nice tight bass
to fill in the bottom end.

TIA

Dave

[Rocky]

Ribbons are nice, but may not go deep enough for 2-way.. I'd say ScanSpeak D2904/980000 aluminium dome is a veeery good choice, but it has nasty breakups above 20000 cycles that will have to be addressed in the filter. Other ScanSpeaks works great and will avoid this problem, but they are soft dome... And you got the Thiel/Accuton C23. Ceramic stuff. Very good, and goes low. For 3-way you might concider C12 instead..

My impression is that ceramic tweeters works best paired with ceramic midbass. For a good companion to the ScanSpeak tweeters you should check out 5''-7'' Seas Excel drivers.

[bonsai171]

Do you know of any commercially available speakers that have ribbons? There are some fairly high-end stores around here, so it might be possible to hear one locally. Ultimately, I would be leaning towards a 3 way. One of my favorite speakers i've heard for full-range is the NHT 2.9. It is now an older model, but had a certain lively quality to it, without being harsh. That is a 4-way setup- tweeter, high mid, low mid, and then a side-firing 10. Now of course that's not necessarily the way to go (possible timing problems with that side-firing woofer and everything else facing front), but some of the best no-compromise sound i've heard is from 3-ways. (but 4 can be better / more complex). So 3-way seems like the way to go. A ribbon tweeter sounds like a nice option for this type of setup. What ribbons have you heard that are very clean, but not harsh? To solve the problem of them not going deep enough, maybe they could be mated to a nice midrange?? Of course after that, mate a nice woofer to the mid, and hopefully call it a day

Btw, when i mentioned that the dayton tweeter is dull, i guess you could say it sounds kind of compressed. Maybe that is somehow linked to the 8" advent woofer it is crossed over to?

Anyways, i'm kind of a newbie to the whole diy scene, just grasping some of the concepts.. I definitely need help with measuring frequency response and t/s parameters.

Ok, with that in mind, would it be possible to create a really nice set of speakers say in the $600-$700 range (minus construction materials i.e. wood, screws, etc..) with minimal compromise that are 3 way? I guess eventually everything has to come back to the budget Thanks!

Dave

[Rocky]

I cannot see any negative effects of a side-firing woofer as long as Xover-point is below 100Hz.

For 3 way, ribbons may be a very good choice. I like the Ravens very much , but they are pricey. I have not heard Aurum Cantus, but some people claim they're like Ravens.. Some claims they are not. Visaton makes a very decent ribbon, I think, but I cannot remember it's price.. It might be cheap, or more likely expensive

With regards to midrange, you might want to take a look at Fostex's "full range" line of drivers. Some cheap jewels here, and they should be great with ribbons in the highs too... Crossovers could probably be 1st order, as they would overlap over a huge band..

Should you choose Ravens, beware of their impedance. It is like 3 ohms or something, very odd. I have never built a system with Ravens, but if I ever did, I would put some sort of choke coil on them to give me 8 ohms I think.

EDIT: Fountek also has some ribbons that might work good, I have no experience with them. And you can ofcourse get a pair of those Heil AMTs off ebay! Decent stuff.

[454Casull]

Linkwitz uses the Seas T25CF002 in his Orion, crossed over at 1.4kHz using a 4th-order L-R filter to a Seas W18EX001. Should work fine if you don't listen at an extremely high volume.

But, Linkwitz suggests going with the W22EX001 because it has lower distortion. Both will work fine with the 1.4kHz crossover, although the W22's off-axis performance near the top of its operating bandwidth will be worse compared to the W18 (it's bigger).

Taking the top end off the Orion isn't a bad idea. A monopole Millenium tweeter crossed to a dipole W22 should be very clean.

[Al Garay]

soft dome: Hiquphon OW1 or 2 or 3 $90 USD (crossing over 2.5k)
ribbon: Fountek JP2 $118 USD

Go to Madisound Forum and do a search.

Al

[Rocky]

If I were to take the top end of a Orion, I would definitly go for the ScanSpeak tweeter in place of the Millennium (although their danish and not norwegian ). Keep in mind also that such an approach would require digital/active equalizing as the Seas Excel drivers is not designed to run flat on an open baffle.. Linkwitz's filter can be used as reference so the equalizing won't be that much of a pain..

[bonsai171]

ok, maybe i should have put in a budget for the system. I would like to keep it at around $500 or so for a 3-way. Is that possible? I posted a similar question on another website, just to get more opinnions, but am curious as to what you guys think of these drivers?

tweeter: Seas H1212 ($29.16 each)
mid: Seas CB17RCY/P (H571) (
woofer: not chosen yet

Is there a good woofer that would work well with these, and possibly even a pre-designed crossover??? tia

Dave

[gary f]

with 500$, you can do a good 3 way. The following is what I would do if I was you. In fact, my next project will surely be a 3 way so i'm interested in what you are doing. I am concious that this is a pretty straightfoward solution and not everybody will agree, but is is also quite safe...

1st: select a good midrange driver. The Mid will cover most of the audio signal so put the most money on this one. range: from 100 to 3000 Hz. I would also use a 5" driver instead of a 6" for better offaxis response, better extension and faster driver. Use it in it's own little sealed box. Look for drivers with nice and smooth response and rolloff like Vifa P13WH or Peerless 5" HDS of some Focal 5". Other solution would be to use metal cone units, like Seas L15. I worked with this one and like the sound very much, detailled and clean, but breakups need good filtering. And the crossover will be more complex, so more expensive....

2- Choose a tweeter. ScanSpeak 9300 is real nice but maybe a bit expensive for your price range. Seas tweeters are good buy.

3- Choose a woofer, well, no particular advice for these but peerless units looks good.

4- Ready made crossover is no-no. Better made them yourself.

5- You can surely make a good 3-way with 500$, keep at least 80-100$ for crossover components.

F

[5th element]

Originally posted by Rocky
For a good companion to the ScanSpeak tweeters you should check out 5''-7'' Seas Excel drivers.

I second this the SSd2905/97 tweet pairs excellently with a W15cy001.

Having looked at your budget though, you could use the Scan93 tweet with the L15 seas stardard line as a mid and then use a peerless 850146 for the bass. This totals $385 from madisound.

Plonk the 850146 in a 50-70 litre sealed box and you will get very nice bass, tight tuneful and well extended.

Put the L15 in a sealed box of about 5-10 litres and cross about 150-200 to the 850146, then cross at about 3k to the 93 and your sorted. Remember to include a res trap to tame the 10k ish peak on the L15 and you should get very nice results. Pay close attention however to the sensativity match of the L15 and the 850146 when including baffle step.