I have built a pair of Buschhorn Mk II's and am ready to veneer them. Never done it before, but I have read the bejesus out of everything I could find. I have the really pretty quilted Sapele, all ready to go, with extra to try out first.
Here is my problem.
My veneer is unbacked. I am using the technique where you glue both sides first then let them dry (Tite-Bond II) and when I glue my test piece of veneer, the glue soaks thru to the other (final exterior) side instantly.
I fear this will give me lots of problems when I go to apply stain and finish. I am stuck.
Do I just do it like this, with the soaking through? Is this normal?
Should I just coat the substrate (MDF) and iron on the veneer without glue on it?
Should I consider another method altogether?
Thanks for any help-
GnD
Here is my problem.
My veneer is unbacked. I am using the technique where you glue both sides first then let them dry (Tite-Bond II) and when I glue my test piece of veneer, the glue soaks thru to the other (final exterior) side instantly.
I fear this will give me lots of problems when I go to apply stain and finish. I am stuck.
Do I just do it like this, with the soaking through? Is this normal?
Should I just coat the substrate (MDF) and iron on the veneer without glue on it?
Should I consider another method altogether?
Thanks for any help-
GnD
It sounds as if you are applying too much glue if you are having the glue seep through the veneer. If the glue seeps through the veneer and is allowed to dry the veneer will not take a stain properly. Usually this technique works very well for us amatuers. I have used it successfully myself. My dad who was a cabinet maker used to use simple yellow glue and a vacuum clamp (a large vacuum bag and vacuum pump). When I first started I thought he would disown me because I used contact cement but he just shook his head and loaned me his vacuum clamp.
I did not dilute the glue at all. Is it possible you watered it down too much or the instructions you used instructed you to add too much water? I would try it again on a test piece using less water if you can spare a small piece of veneer. Just as an FYI, here is a url for a DIY vacuum press. Best of luck.
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm
One more FYI. Here is the URL to my woodworking website:
http://www.woodworkersweb.com
You can see our shop by clicking on "Michele and Guy's Woodshop" in the menu. I am the Guy in "Michele and Guy".
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm
One more FYI. Here is the URL to my woodworking website:
http://www.woodworkersweb.com
You can see our shop by clicking on "Michele and Guy's Woodshop" in the menu. I am the Guy in "Michele and Guy".
Here is another url that you should find of interest:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt083b.asp
I have a feeling that the problem lies in that you are using Titebond II and not plain old yellow carpenters glue. Titebond II is water resistant glue. Do you really need water resistant glue? Titebond II is not really meant to be thinned. Just another thought.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt083b.asp
I have a feeling that the problem lies in that you are using Titebond II and not plain old yellow carpenters glue. Titebond II is water resistant glue. Do you really need water resistant glue? Titebond II is not really meant to be thinned. Just another thought.
I wouldn't use glue at all. Veneer is traditionally applied with contact cement. Apply to both surfaces. When dry cover the cabinet with wax paper, put the veneer over it, when ready slide the wax paper out and use a roller to press out any bubbles. It sounds like you had the right techinique but wrong material. If you try this with Titebond II the two pieces will not ahdere after the glue has dried.
Don't try this on the cabinet until you've perfected technique on junk wood- it's irreversable.
Don't try this on the cabinet until you've perfected technique on junk wood- it's irreversable.
For the inexperienced, I too would suggest using contact cement. Aside from the bleeding, the veneer will curl and bubble as it expands with the water, making the ironing process even more of a battle. Glue on the surface of veneer washes in when using water and causes blushing, but doesn't seem a problem with mineral spirits and contact cement.
Use a roller for a thin, even coat.
Use a roller for a thin, even coat.
Bill,
Actually Bill, glue is the preferred method, but maybe not for a beginner. Have a look at the URL's I posted above. Most pro shops (including my pops cabinet shop) use veneer presses and simple yellow glue. You simply get a better bond and it is tons more forgiving. I do however agree with you on the Titebond. I only use Titebond II when the piece will be in a damp environment and Titebond III on outdoor projects otherwise I use plain old yellow glue.
Actually Bill, glue is the preferred method, but maybe not for a beginner. Have a look at the URL's I posted above. Most pro shops (including my pops cabinet shop) use veneer presses and simple yellow glue. You simply get a better bond and it is tons more forgiving. I do however agree with you on the Titebond. I only use Titebond II when the piece will be in a damp environment and Titebond III on outdoor projects otherwise I use plain old yellow glue.
If you don't have a vacuum clamp, I devised a trick. Glue and lay everythink up, cover with a nice flat piece of MDF or plywood, then tack it with a few brads (small nails) Then lay a few scraps of 2x4 to spread the load, crossed by a few more, then place a 10 ton or so bottle jack on top. Cut a 4x4 and nail a 4x4 across the top to make a large T. Place the T on top of the jack and orient the T so It crosses your ceiling joist, and jack. If you look and have your T under the kickers that brace your roof, Or under a beam in your basement, You can easily put 4 to5 tons of clamping pressure. I used this method to laminate 3/4" honduran mahogany to MDF speaker box with yellow carpenters glue. I't came out solid as a rock. I then used a router to trim it flush.
Just think about your spreader setup ahead of time. It's important to spread the load so all areas have equal presure regardless if something is uneven.
Just think about your spreader setup ahead of time. It's important to spread the load so all areas have equal presure regardless if something is uneven.
I found a gel-based contact cement at Home Depot (DAP Weldwood Gel Formula contact cement) that did great with a test board. I would hate to think I had to seperate the two pieces.
The great think about the gel is that it did not bleed thru the veneer one single bit when I applied it.
Has anyone else used this stuff? It seems to be pretty darn good.
The great think about the gel is that it did not bleed thru the veneer one single bit when I applied it.
Has anyone else used this stuff? It seems to be pretty darn good.
Grahamn,
I indeed have. I have used it when relaminating a neighbors bathroom vanity with formica. I have never used and probably will never use it on raw wood. Contact cement is really designed for laminates like formica and such and I have heard some people having success with paper backed veneers, but I have seen raw wood veneer glued with contact cement, bubble after a period of time. While it may take some time to bubble, I am not one to take chances. BTW, non thinned or diluted yellow glue will not bleed through either.
I indeed have. I have used it when relaminating a neighbors bathroom vanity with formica. I have never used and probably will never use it on raw wood. Contact cement is really designed for laminates like formica and such and I have heard some people having success with paper backed veneers, but I have seen raw wood veneer glued with contact cement, bubble after a period of time. While it may take some time to bubble, I am not one to take chances. BTW, non thinned or diluted yellow glue will not bleed through either.
I have used that Gell formula contact cement on paper backed veneer, but I didn't like it very much. I wound up going with an odor-free variety that I found at WoodCraft. It worked great on paper-backed veneer. As for non-backed veneer, I would have to agree that the yellow glue is the way to go.
Cheers,
Zach
Cheers,
Zach
Grahamn,
If you have your heart set on using contact cement and plan a lacquer finish, I am afraid you may have to apply the laquer finish first as Lacquer will do a number on contact cement, or so I am told. I don't honestly see that as an easy thing to do because if you prefinish the veneer it may curl on you, creating a nightmare. I personally have never used Lacquer on backed or raw veneer applied with contact cement, so what I have stated is hearsay, and if you try it, proceed at your own risk. I understand your desire to use contact cement because it makes things much easier. All you need with contact cement is a well ventilated area, a brush, veneer roller and trim router. I use yellow glue because I am lucky enough to have access to a veneer press. Best of luck to you on your project.
If you have your heart set on using contact cement and plan a lacquer finish, I am afraid you may have to apply the laquer finish first as Lacquer will do a number on contact cement, or so I am told. I don't honestly see that as an easy thing to do because if you prefinish the veneer it may curl on you, creating a nightmare. I personally have never used Lacquer on backed or raw veneer applied with contact cement, so what I have stated is hearsay, and if you try it, proceed at your own risk. I understand your desire to use contact cement because it makes things much easier. All you need with contact cement is a well ventilated area, a brush, veneer roller and trim router. I use yellow glue because I am lucky enough to have access to a veneer press. Best of luck to you on your project.
Sheldon,
That may work, but the caveat is that when he mixes his cut of shellac he MUST use alcohol that is water free or else the veneer will curl and possibly crack. If I were to try this method I would use a good old oil based sanding sealer. All we are trying to do is seal the pores of the wood. I would also rough the sealed surface with 150 grit after it is dry to give the contact cement something to grab on to. I have never tried this but it sounds as if this may have a chance of working.
That may work, but the caveat is that when he mixes his cut of shellac he MUST use alcohol that is water free or else the veneer will curl and possibly crack. If I were to try this method I would use a good old oil based sanding sealer. All we are trying to do is seal the pores of the wood. I would also rough the sealed surface with 150 grit after it is dry to give the contact cement something to grab on to. I have never tried this but it sounds as if this may have a chance of working.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.