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Old 13th October 2011, 02:22 PM   #511
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Has anyone tried ambiophonics in a simple 2.1 system for watching movies? (I don't want to call a 2.1 system "home theater") Or, I guess my point being, can you use this kind of signal processing instead of a 5.1, 7.1, or what have you system? Would you use the HDMI output or the regular RCA ones for audio? What happens to all that encoded stuff in the DVD if I do use a simple 2.1 system? (I'm cheap and lazy and don't want to build all those dang speakers for a 7.1 system and buy a special 7.1 home theater receiver)
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Old 14th October 2011, 05:19 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by poldus View Post
There is something going on that I donīt understand. There is Ralph Glasgal and then there are a very few of us who said: this is totally better than stereo, there is no way we will go back.
Where is everybody else? How come they donīt hear the overpowering superiority of ambio?
Theories explaining why ambio cannot improve on stereo donīt mean a thing to me because Iīve been sitting in this chair listening to ambio with a smile on my face for over eight years now. It is the fact that some have tried it and are not astonished at its beauty. That is what I donīt understand and would like to hear details on.
Well, Poldus.......
People who aren't interested in, or don't know about ambiophonics aren't looking at this thread.
That's why as I stated in my previous post, we have to get the word out, and there is no better time than now.
Audio is becoming a one man show, with people staring at their computers, tablets and phones.
Their heads are in a vice. Perfect for ambiophonics.
Where are all the reviews for the iPad app? Or the neutron music player for android app? ( which by the way is amazing....same functionality as minidsp )
I'm planning on starting a small business ( when the recession lets up ) designing and selling loudspeakers. I am going to concentrate on ambiophonics.

All I do with my time is think about ambiophonics and design solutions for the acceptance of it by the common person.

All the talk of artifacts induced by R.A.C.E are benign compared to the messy 6 foot wide blob of confusion produced by a traditional stereophonic setup.

When I use xtc, I set the parameters to produce a 90 degree stage, beyond that, I think it sounds unnatural. The cues for the pinna are to far away from far right or far left for a 180 degree stage. ( no treble out there ).
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Old 15th October 2011, 01:54 PM   #513
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When I use xtc, I set the parameters to produce a 90 degree stage, beyond that, I think it sounds unnatural. The cues for the pinna are to far away from far right or far left for a 180 degree stage. ( no treble out there ).
I agree. The problem is, since there is no reference, one can easily overdo the effect and get spectacular results with some recordings and an awful mess with others. Finding the right balance is essential so you donīt get disappointed in the long run.
I am thinking that using a coaxial or coincident multiway speaker configuration could add to the ambio experience. Worth a try if only my finances would allow
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Old 15th October 2011, 03:08 PM   #514
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The cues for the pinna are to far away from far right or far left for a 180 degree stage. ( no treble out there ).
Thanks for the many kind words way above. There should be the first iPhone app available for free to download in about two weeks or less.

Yes, to get to 180 degrees reliably and properly psychoacoustically you do need the higher frequencies to seem to come from the 90 degree sides. Fortunately, for far side sources, the sound has a direct shot at the ear canal so that the pinna cues are the weakest at this angle. Thus using just the two front speakers one can get closer to the 90 degree mark than one would expect. It depends on your own ear/brain characteristics, how much ITD and ILD the recording has, and how much of it you deliver via your Ambio system.

But if you put another two speakers also configured as an Ambiodipole with its own XTC/RACE program running, then the high frequencies from the rear added to the high frequencies coming from the front, produce a unique pinna pattern that the brain somehow interprets as a widening of the stage. Probably, this strange pinna pattern is like the normal weak side one and this allows the brain to just localize via the ILD and ITD in the recording. Try it. The rear speakers can be anything you have lying around.

Ralph Glasgal
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Old 16th October 2011, 02:00 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by poldus View Post
I am thinking that using a coaxial or coincident multiway speaker configuration could add to the ambio experience. Worth a try if only my finances would allow
Do you mean adding side speakers and running pro logic through them?
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Old 16th October 2011, 02:18 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by Ralph Glasgal View Post

But if you put another two speakers also configured as an Ambiodipole with its own XTC/RACE program running, then the high frequencies from the rear added to the high frequencies coming from the front, produce a unique pinna pattern that the brain somehow interprets as a widening of the stage. Probably, this strange pinna pattern is like the normal weak side one and this allows the brain to just localize via the ILD and ITD in the recording. Try it. The rear speakers can be anything you have lying around.

Ralph Glasgal
running the same signal? If so, I would think that all frequencies below the head shadow would seam to be in the head? No?
Maybe high passing the entire signal with a shallow slope where the pinna cues start to take over? Say 1k? I'll give it a go in a few days. Working a lot
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Old 16th October 2011, 05:18 AM   #517
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Regarding the phantom sources issue, I think people have different definitions and/or using it define more and this is where the disagreement comes from.

Of course there will be a phantom image between a L and C speaker, the real question is what happens to stage width, the out of phase stuff that would appear outside the boundaries of L and C or C and R? The point is you will have phantom sources between, but sources out of phase and out of speaker boundaries will be compressed and lopsided. This is basic vectors, and I have tested this in real life.

I think the maybe we need to stop confusing phantom images with apparent source width (ASW).

3 channel will also suffer some ASW loss in off-center situations due to incorrect vector alignment. This is why OSD in my mind can be a good alternative. It combines 3 channel layout, but using two channels efficiently divided by frequency ranges and makes it video/tv screen compatible so those complaints can be null and void.

Last edited by durwood; 16th October 2011 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 16th October 2011, 01:58 PM   #518
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Audio is becoming a one man show, with people staring at their computers, tablets and phones.
Their heads are in a vice. Perfect for ambiophonics.
Really? The axial shift is much bigger with these short listening distances. Secondly do those devices have speakers at the correct locations? Are there even stereo speakers? Are the speakers capable?

I think it's much more common that people would (and probably already do) use headphones when sound quality is of concern. Something like the Smyth Realiser. That device can deliver perfect speaker crosstalk cancellation.
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Old 16th October 2011, 08:50 PM   #519
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Really? The axial shift is much bigger with these short listening distances. Secondly do those devices have speakers at the correct locations? Are there even stereo speakers? Are the speakers capable?
I'm speaking of aftermarket ambiopoles for these devices. Not the internal speakers of these devices.

Also, you could have an ambiopole off in the distance while you are on your iPad or android tablet.

With a pc, a slim ambiophonic sound bar, coupled with a subwoofer would be plenty capable for the near field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
I think it's much more common that people would (and probably already do) use headphones when sound quality is of concern. Something like the Smyth Realiser. That device can deliver perfect speaker crosstalk cancellation.
I'm all for headphones, as long as it's binaural.
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Old 16th October 2011, 09:04 PM   #520
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I'm speaking of aftermarket ambiopoles for these devices. Not the internal speakers of these devices.

Also, you could have an ambiopole off in the distance while you are on your iPad or android tablet.

With a pc, a slim ambiophonic sound bar, coupled with a subwoofer would be plenty capable for the near field.
Those devices are highly portable and that's the way they are used. How does a stationary reproduction device fit in? There're already AirPlay enabled AVRs. I'm not sure this is what Ralph was thinking of when mentioning mobile devices?
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