Try Ambiophonics with your speakers - Page 29 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th April 2010, 04:19 PM   #281
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
HRTF are an end result, there are many things that comprise HRTF's and crosstalk or if you want to call it vectors instead, are important. You need a vector to determine what HRTF to use.
HRTF is the most correct term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
Panpot is not really "Stereo" although it is label as pan-pot stereo.
Stereo mixes based on interchannel level differences deliver the most stable phantom localization. It doesn't get more "stereo".

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
That is the problem, the word "stereo" can mean so many things and is very vague.
Not to me. See post #266.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
By panning sounds in headphones, it is not real and there are problems. This does not happen in nature. You cannot be deaf to sounds coming from the sides in one ear (unless it is high frequencies), it sounds unnatural. This is the reason for simulating HRTF or adding crossfeed, whatever you want to call it.
Not sure what you are trying to say. Adding a simple crossfeed to headphone playback will not externalize sounds. On the other hand, plugging one ear will not cause sound to be perceived within your head.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 05:16 PM   #282
durwood is offline durwood  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
HRTF is the most correct term.
You missed my point. You cannot define a set of HRTF to use without first knowing your vectors. Would you use the same set of HRTF's for speakers at +/-10 vs +/30deg? How about 45deg? 180deg? 0deg?

Quote:
Stereo mixes based on interchannel level differences deliver the most stable phantom localization. It doesn't get more "stereo".
Totally incorrect, it is actually the opposite. Stereo relies heavily on ITD and does poorly with ILD to acheive a stable soundstage. Move your head a couple inches and the sound changes drastically. Stereo starts falling apart >700hz and by 1.5-3Khz the errors are horrible. Or course it seems to "work" because human speech is within this range so some find it good enough, others reject it.

Quote:
Not to me. See post #266.
"2 loudspeakers and the listener form a equilateral triangle. "

If this is all you consider necessary, then good luck to you.

Last edited by durwood; 12th April 2010 at 05:43 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 05:42 PM   #283
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
You missed my point. You cannot define a set of HRTF to use without first knowing your vectors.
Quite honestly I don't understand what point you're trying to make. You said "Stereo requires a specific ammount of crosstalk to work." and that's simply not true. Ralph explained why in detail above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
Totally incorrect, it is actually the opposite. Stereo relies heavily on ITD and does poorly with ILD to acheive a stable soundstage. Move your head a couple inches and the sound changes drastically. Lateral localization is very strongly tied to ITD not ILD. "Stereo" = solid, is that really solid?
Well, every mixing engineer will tell you that you're wrong. Phantom sources based on interchannel level differences will result in high localization accuracy which is typical for stereo reproduction. And yes, there is a "stereo seat" and this will always be a problem.
Localization accuracy of lateral phantom sources is typically pretty bad (see Blauert "Spatial Hearing"). You're again mixing up interaural and interchannel cues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
If this is all you consider necessary, then good luck to you.
That's the lowest common denominator and typical setup in control rooms. Sorry if you don't like what reality looks like.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 08:26 PM   #284
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham, UK
Stereo as we know it depending on level differences is a completely artificial effect.
The brain only uses level differences if there are no phase differences for it to work with.

Anybody who ever had a head cold resulting in one ear being partially blocked should have noticed that: While listening to a stereo system is totally messed up we have no problems accurately localizing real sounds.
This has very solid evolutionary reasons.

(Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I did not follow this thread and reading through nearly 300 posts is too time consuming.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2010, 03:45 PM   #285
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Elias's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where you live
Here's a couple of AES papers on cross-talk in stereo

Keele

Part 1:
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele...alk_Part_1.pdf

Part 2:
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele...alk_Part_2.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2010, 03:56 PM   #286
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Thanks, "Everything you ever wanted to know about crosstalk."
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2010, 04:12 PM   #287
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new england
Default Any Polksters here?

Mathew Polk white paper on SDS/SRS technology and their new surround sound.

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/w...WhitePaper.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2010, 02:19 AM   #288
durwood is offline durwood  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Here's a couple of AES papers on cross-talk in stereo

Keele

Part 1:
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele...alk_Part_1.pdf

Part 2:
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele...alk_Part_2.pdf
And here in case those die...
AES Papers -- Official website of D.B.Keele
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2010, 02:24 AM   #289
durwood is offline durwood  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic43 View Post
Mathew Polk white paper on SDS/SRS technology and their new surround sound.

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/w...WhitePaper.pdf
it's amazing how some of this stuff gets recycled over and over. Give it a few years and someone else will come out something "new"

Position Independent Stereo very similar to polk's SDA.
http://www.extra.research.philips.co...ers/aar01p.pdf

Carver Sonic Holography
Sonic holography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately unless people keep up with trying to promote such ideas it will never take over and eventually people view the gadgets as gimics.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2010, 03:57 AM   #290
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
it's amazing how some of this stuff gets recycled over and over.
Does that really make you wonder? There has been so little progress in psychoacoustics within the last 80 years. We're still discussing things that Blumlein already knew (see last few posts about crosstalk in this thread) and still don't know how summing localization works.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Built differences between Guitar Speakers and PA Speakers? agadis PA Systems 7 24th September 2007 08:22 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2