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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 27th November 2016, 07:29 AM   #931
dkdkdk is offline dkdkdk
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graaf: are you still using this SSS? How is (or was) the wiring in the box done and how the whole setup from source to SSS looks like?

...same question to Poldus
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Old 27th November 2016, 07:44 AM   #932
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by Azul Baronis View Post
I've tried that tool as others and I've lived with ambiophonics for 7 years already with a wide variety of speakers and rooms and barriers.

Trust me when I tell you, if you want Ambiophonics, use a thick physical barrier with an absorptive surface. The digital crosstalk cancellators are terrible and they don't even work properly, they are a joke. You could use them on cheap speakers and at close range <1m if you really want to...
If you want good sound, the physical barrier is the way to go. If you're not willing to divide your room with a massive physical barrier for the sake of sound: FORGET IT!!
Random observations:

1) I agree, the physical barrier thing works pretty darn well

2) I've notice that the various implementations of Ambio sound quite different. I have a miniAmbio and I've tried two or three different implementations on the PC

3) As alluded to by Melo, I *did* get quite good results doing this:
a) Set up an additional set of satellites near your listening chair
b) feed those satellites with the same signal as your main speakers, but delayed and inverted.
The way that this works is very similar to ambio. The difference is that the crosstalk cancellation isn't done at the loudspeaker, or in a processor. The crosstalk cancellation is done at your seat. This has a few advantages. First, it doesn't have that weird 'lispy' quality that some of the ambio processors suffer from. Second, it doesn't kill the dynamics as much as some ambio processors to. This is because the amplitude of the cancellation signal isn't as large as it would be if the cancellation was being done with a processor, or done at the loudspeaker itself a la Polk.

All of this can be implemented with a plain ol' minidsp.

I went this route for a few weeks, but abandoned it because the stage was TOO big. I listen to a lot of EDM, that's already heavily processed, and the addition of my crosstalk cancelllation satellites created a huge stage that sounded neat, but was kinda fatiguing.
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Old 27th November 2016, 08:53 AM   #933
STAryo is offline STAryo  Malaysia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Random observations:



1) I agree, the physical barrier thing works pretty darn well



2) I've notice that the various implementations of Ambio sound quite different. I have a miniAmbio and I've tried two or three different implementations on the PC

.......,.
................


.


IMO, using physical barrier requires complete isolation and it was difficult to do so in our normal room. I tried them in the early 2000s but wasn't practical and difficult.

I have tried both the MiniDSP Ambio plugin and AmbiophonicsDSP. I prefer the DSP with JRiver.

In my system, with Harbeth SHL5 and M-3PX Sound Lab speakers, the DSP version triumphs over stereo setup.

Having said that, for some recordings with a lot of pseudo stereo, you may perceive unnatural soundstage which can be controlled with the space and zentrum function.

Please try Ambiophonics with Linn, Telarc or western classical music to understand the proper settings. Once, you understand the way to control the soundstage and tonal characteristics then it is easier to move to other types. of recordings.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 27th November 2016, 08:10 PM   #934
poldus is offline poldus  Europe
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[QUOTEgraaf: are you still using this SSS? How is (or was) the wiring in the box done and how the whole setup from source to SSS looks like?

...same question to Poldus
Today 12:37 AM][/QUOTE]
The center speaker is only used for movies as a dialogue center channel. The side speakers go through a miniambio with recursion level on the soft side.
The point source speakers and the extended lows from the subwoofer help to the overall effect.
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Old 27th November 2016, 08:33 PM   #935
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkdkdk View Post
graaf: are you still using this SSS? How is (or was) the wiring in the box done and how the whole setup from source to SSS looks like?

...same question to Poldus
IIRC the SSS wiring is explained in Elias Pekonen's threads and on his website: http://elias.altervista.org/html/Sin...kerStereo.html

for my part I had used only pure bipolar L-R, no center channel, eventually toed-out 90 degrees to the sides and no barrier, and no ambio algorithms - those were mainly pre-computer audio days, at least for me

I don' use it anymore - it was physically incompatible with a TV setup for watching movies - one needs two speakers symmetrically to the TV set, not one in front of it

I've been using a FCUFS/flooder setup for many years now.
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Old 27th November 2016, 10:02 PM   #936
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
IIRC the SSS wiring is explained in Elias Pekonen's threads
I mean those linked above
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Old 28th November 2016, 10:54 AM   #937
UnixMan is offline UnixMan  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
for my part I had used only pure bipolar L-R, no center channel, eventually toed-out 90 degrees to the sides
if I got it right, that looks somewhat like an "XY" stereo microphone setup reversed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
I don' use it anymore - it was physically incompatible with a TV setup for watching movies - one needs two speakers symmetrically to the TV set, not one in front of it
well, not really: such a setup could be easily and conveniently placed behind the TV, rather than in front of it!

Actually, adding some acoustic absorbent on the back of the TV screen will turn it into an acoustic barrier which should stop direct sound from the speakers, allowing first reflection from side walls to come first to the ear. That may be a very interesting arrangement, which perhaps may give some quite interesting results...
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Old 28th November 2016, 11:16 AM   #938
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnixMan View Post
if I got it right, that looks somewhat like an "XY" stereo microphone setup reversed...
perhaps I should say 180 degrees

Click the image to open in full size.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UnixMan View Post
well, not really: such a setup could be easily and conveniently placed behind the TV, rather than in front of it!

Actually, adding some acoustic absorbent on the back of the TV screen will turn it into an acoustic barrier which should stop direct sound from the speakers, allowing first reflection from side walls to come first to the ear. That may be a very interesting arrangement, which perhaps may give some quite interesting results...
difficult when You have the TV set mounted on the wall but otherwise certainly worth trying
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