There's a formula on the Ambiophonics site, but it's been included in a plugin for Foobar I use. The ambiophonics plugin manual from Electromusic also has some.
I'm not sure how I'm getting it either, but I am.
Maybe that's how I'm getting the center image?
I cannot speak for the software.
With the barrier and the speakers basically touching (10 degrees is referenced), the center image sounds right, maybe head sized, unlike the 3' wade hazy blob using the stereo 60 degree triangle.
And I'd imagine that the side walls make a difference, even with a barrier between the speakers, the left bounce off the wall would trick the ear into thinking there is a delay from somewhere off to the left.
Norman
With the barrier and the speakers basically touching (10 degrees is referenced), the center image sounds right, maybe head sized, unlike the 3' wade hazy blob using the stereo 60 degree triangle.
And I'd imagine that the side walls make a difference, even with a barrier between the speakers, the left bounce off the wall would trick the ear into thinking there is a delay from somewhere off to the left.
Norman
Well, I just tried what you said. Speakers had 8" width, put delay at 35 (which is lower than recommended according to the delay formula) sat back around 15" to create a 30 degree angle.
It sounded the same as to what I've been using in a sixty degree triangle. Center still focused and extra wide. For fun I separated the speakers into a triangle, and it still sounded very close with little change.
That's great. There are lots of other techniques that can make stereo more enjoyable though. This doesn't change the fact that stereo recordings aren't made for barrier playback or Ambiophonics.
Not sure what this has to do with mastering engineers, they don't record or mix.
Most recordings are made in and therefore for control rooms using the standard (level only!) panning laws.
What about the "pinna direction finding problems" in Ambiophonics?
Not sure what exactly you're referring to.
The industry isn't ready. Virtually all recordings are still stereo. I'd be the first to use something that is better than stereo but this simply isn't a solution that appeals to me:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I tried a few of the Ambiophonics demo files for the first time two days ago. I was nothing short of amazed! Despite the stigmatizing photo above!
You need to consider that many audiophiles are big time into esthetics (I am not) and like to flaunt ther $1k speaker cables like the jewelry they are. I am sure that one look at that photo will turn them off and have them assign it to the quackery bin.
In the meantime I have been trying my darndest to get some RACE software going on my PC to no avail. I have been unable to purchase the AmbiophonicsDSP software on electro-music.com as the store will not allow me to register. So that option is out. Then I tried the free ambiophonic transcoder from Introduction of Hotto Engineering. But there are no input devices showing up in the drop down menu. So I tried it on my laptop. That has a few input devices showing but none of them work. There are no instructions for using the application. So I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I tried installing stream what you hear and have that running in the background. But then what?
For the sake of this format catching on. I hope someone will take more of a marketing approach with a user friendly way of getting started with the software. Since most will not attempt the physical divider. At least not at first.
I don't mean for any of my comments to be offensive. But a few have ask the question as to why this has not caught on. After two days of trying I am ready to give up.
James
You need to consider that many audiophiles are big time into esthetics (I am not) and like to flaunt ther $1k speaker cables like the jewelry they are. I am sure that one look at that photo will turn them off and have them assign it to the quackery bin.
In the meantime I have been trying my darndest to get some RACE software going on my PC to no avail. I have been unable to purchase the AmbiophonicsDSP software on electro-music.com as the store will not allow me to register. So that option is out. Then I tried the free ambiophonic transcoder from Introduction of Hotto Engineering. But there are no input devices showing up in the drop down menu. So I tried it on my laptop. That has a few input devices showing but none of them work. There are no instructions for using the application. So I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I tried installing stream what you hear and have that running in the background. But then what?
For the sake of this format catching on. I hope someone will take more of a marketing approach with a user friendly way of getting started with the software. Since most will not attempt the physical divider. At least not at first.
I don't mean for any of my comments to be offensive. But a few have ask the question as to why this has not caught on. After two days of trying I am ready to give up.
James
Sorry for the relatively large thread revival, but I have a question.
I finally have a properly placed pair of speakers for ambiophonics, but my question mostly pertains to reflections and balance. The speakers are spaced a little less than 1' apart, but the left sidewall is about 2-3' away. I listen at a distance of approximately 36" or so.
From what I noticed, a lot of music seems to favor the left channel for instruments. I'm trying to figure out if this is a result of sidewall reflections, or in fact the actual master or how it's supposed to sound.
Any advice/comments on this?
I finally have a properly placed pair of speakers for ambiophonics, but my question mostly pertains to reflections and balance. The speakers are spaced a little less than 1' apart, but the left sidewall is about 2-3' away. I listen at a distance of approximately 36" or so.
From what I noticed, a lot of music seems to favor the left channel for instruments. I'm trying to figure out if this is a result of sidewall reflections, or in fact the actual master or how it's supposed to sound.
Any advice/comments on this?
I just set this up for the first time last week and I find it compelling. My desk system is now configured for this and I've purchased the outboard DSP from ambio4you to integrate/evaluate.
In other words I like it a lot, especially after some reading up on the basics at the ambiophonics.org page. Others that have listened with me concur, it's pretty awesome!
However, I can see how some people would not like it. I'll answer with two questions:
1. Is there a way to have a good multiple listener experience in a normal living room? (Not perfect/ideal, but just good or even acceptable). Music/film are social, not solitary experiences for many people.
2. Is there a way to make this "tweak-free?" Many users will not want to think about microseconds of delay or dB of attenuation. Many won't even care about the details of how it works.
Those are two things off the top of my head that will keep this algorithm confined to hobbyists rather than average consumers, better experience or not.
How does it sound if you listen to a source that is hard panned left and right?
Here's a construction thread for my new Ambiopole:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/257787-soundbar-bateman-style.html
Here's some pics:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/257787-soundbar-bateman-style.html
Here's some pics:
I don't have a lot of music with hard pans, I'll have to find something to try when I get home.
WOW
I made a real breakthrough with my ambiophonic speaker today.
First, some background:
I've run ambiophonic Synergy horns in my car. In this configuration, the soundstage was very well defined. Not just a solid center image, but real width that enveloped you. The measured phase response of my Synergy horns was very good; less than 90 degrees of phase shift over a span of about five octaves.
As noted yesterday, I've built some new ambiopoles. This ambiopole uses a single 8" woofer instead of a single 5" woofer. I noticed a dramatic step down in imaging. The sound was barely larger than the loudspeaker, and recordings which I know well and have very good imaging cues, they just didn't image well with this box.
Obviously, this was a real bummer, because I thought I knew what I was doing.
I noticed in the phase measurement that the phase was all over the map. This was also odd, as my crossover was minimalist and my tweeter and my woofer are basically coaxial.
AND THEN IT HIT ME!
Because the woofer is on the SIDE of the box, and not the FRONT of the box, the far edge of the cone is significantly out-of-phase with the NEAR edge of the cone. For instance, one side of the cone is 8" further away than the other side. At 1700hz, that means that one side of the cone is a full wavelength out-of-phase, at 850hz one side is half a wavelength out of phase.
So I sealed off two of the four holes. This means that there are now two holes in front of the woofer, and both holes are equidistant to my ear.
POW! The image snapped back into focus. The difference is incredible; it was like going from a soundstage that was 2' wide to a soundstage that seems to extend to the other side of the room.
WOW
I made a real breakthrough with my ambiophonic speaker today.
First, some background:
I've run ambiophonic Synergy horns in my car. In this configuration, the soundstage was very well defined. Not just a solid center image, but real width that enveloped you. The measured phase response of my Synergy horns was very good; less than 90 degrees of phase shift over a span of about five octaves.
As noted yesterday, I've built some new ambiopoles. This ambiopole uses a single 8" woofer instead of a single 5" woofer. I noticed a dramatic step down in imaging. The sound was barely larger than the loudspeaker, and recordings which I know well and have very good imaging cues, they just didn't image well with this box.
Obviously, this was a real bummer, because I thought I knew what I was doing.
I noticed in the phase measurement that the phase was all over the map. This was also odd, as my crossover was minimalist and my tweeter and my woofer are basically coaxial.
AND THEN IT HIT ME!
Because the woofer is on the SIDE of the box, and not the FRONT of the box, the far edge of the cone is significantly out-of-phase with the NEAR edge of the cone. For instance, one side of the cone is 8" further away than the other side. At 1700hz, that means that one side of the cone is a full wavelength out-of-phase, at 850hz one side is half a wavelength out of phase.
So I sealed off two of the four holes. This means that there are now two holes in front of the woofer, and both holes are equidistant to my ear.
POW! The image snapped back into focus. The difference is incredible; it was like going from a soundstage that was 2' wide to a soundstage that seems to extend to the other side of the room.
WOW
It's maddening isn't it? I paid for the software on Sunday, and I expected that I'd be able to download it immediately. I've bought plenty of software online, and instant downloads are A Thing.
So I paid for it, and I receive an email that basically indicated that it wasn't an automated solution, and that it would take a few days.
WTF
How difficult is it to send an email? I write software for a living, and anyone that can figure out how to write an ambiophonic processor should be able to figure out how to automate an email.
Lame.
Anyways, rant over, just buy an "ambio4you" from the MiniDSP folks. I got my Ambio4You in less than five days, and that package was shipped from Hong Kong. Also, for some reason, I find that the processing in Ambio4You sounds less obtrusive than the processing in the VST filters. YMMV
Is ambiophonics negatively affected by having a pair of studio monitors above ear height and tilted downward? They do have a well measured horizontal and vertical off-axis response at least (Behringer B2030P).
The reason I ask is that I'm struggling to get the separation angle low enough for a nearfield on-desk setup with a 27" video monitor. Best I can get at the sides is 40 degrees or so. I tried positioning them horizontally at the recommended angle with the video monitor on top and it sounded amazing but I had to look up which got uncomfortable after a while.
So I'm thinking of mounting the studio monitors above the monitor and tilted down. Other positioning suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks
The reason I ask is that I'm struggling to get the separation angle low enough for a nearfield on-desk setup with a 27" video monitor. Best I can get at the sides is 40 degrees or so. I tried positioning them horizontally at the recommended angle with the video monitor on top and it sounded amazing but I had to look up which got uncomfortable after a while.
So I'm thinking of mounting the studio monitors above the monitor and tilted down. Other positioning suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks
Yes. No problem.
I have those speakers as well.
That would work just fine.
Maybe turn them upside down so that the tweeters are closer to the monitor.
You may not have to tilt them this way.
Although you could tilt them as well.
