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Old 11th September 2005, 07:04 AM   #71
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Tolak, I'm not so sure about the wine analogy, not being into wine, but there is going to be some truth in saying that more money does not mean better. In fact, quite a lot of truth in that!

This is not so much a matter of reaching a point where the differences aren't audible, but more that as you spend more, the products will differ quite a bit. The most expensive speakers I've heard were $24k whatmough signature speakers, however, on the same track played in a different space and a different occasion, I felt that a pair of VAF signatures which can be had for as little as $4k were just as good, in fact as accurate as anything I have heard. But then I found their accuracy to be brutal with rock music! If you compare those VAFs to some cheaper $2k speakers, I think you would be surprised at the difference. If I were a bit more of a classical/jazz lover and wasn't into pop and rock so much then speakers like that would quite possibly be my ultimate.

I went to hear a live band at a pub last night, and it was LLLLOOOUUUDD! I could only pick out some fairly compact typical PA speakers with a 12" midbass and a horn tweeter, couldn't see the subs, but my ears would have liked it 10db softer! It was a bit harsh on the ears, but the bass was that chest pounding kind. Well, today back home I had to do a comparison with my system. My 12" subs driven by 650w each didn't manage to get that chest thump They go low, very low but somehow that extreme midbass just doesn't happen.

My feeling is that if you really want to rock, and get that same ultra loud experience, and that bass you can feel pumping, then what you want is "fun speakers" not worrying too much about audiophile subtlety, but instead larger HE speakers, line arrays, VERY large subwoofers which don't need to go lower than 40 Hz.

Cone material has nothing to do with "slam" unless having a nasty untamed cone breakup that isn't dealt with is your idea of slam. Slam can come from any cone material, but has more to do with output and dynamics.
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Old 11th September 2005, 02:13 PM   #72
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Originally posted by poptart
So is there a <$1000 solution to this question?

FWIW I believe drums are the most important part of a rock sound. The drummer never gets the attention the guitar player and singer get, but they make up a huge part of the sound.

Agreed, and to reproduce an unamplified one at ~live levels requires one complete channel of this system driven through an expander to re-EQ the recording's compression, so if you can figure out how to legally replicate its performance in a two channel system for <$1.0K............

'If wishes were horsepower, bagels would fly'.

On a more realistic note, if we ignore the accurate reproduction mantras and think in terms of speakers as part of the EQ chain, then a prosound horn/sub system suffices, but not for <$1.0K unless you can find some good used equipment at relatively 'give away' prices.

Dropping it down another notch brings us to a HE co-ax/LF-midbass system. Adire's 'Hurricane' kit PA monitor meets the budget and for home use should have enough dynamic headroom to allow for some 'slam' midbass EQ if you have enough power:

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 14th September 2005, 10:41 AM   #73
poptart is offline poptart  Canada
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I won't play in a small room with a drummer without ear plugs anymore, so hopefully I can learn to put something cheaper together and be happy with it. I think it's not the drums so much as the cymbals that leave my ears howling, but different people have different ears and apparently for some people recreating the experience of sitting next to a drummer wailing away at full clip is not only desirable, but worth spending a lot of money to achieve.

I know guys that have always played without hearing protection of any kind, standing right in front of their marshall in a small practice room for 3 hours with a drummer 6 feet away. I have a hard time hearing myself if I do that. I used to blame the PA, thinking it was distorting because it was cranked up so high, but then I heard a recording I made of a show that I thought was really distorted and noisy while I was recording it. Low and behold the recording sounded pretty clear when I played it back the next day, so it must be my ears that can't keep up at really high volume.

Thanks for answering. I hope I didn't hijack the thread, apologies to the original poster. If anyone has a link to a group more focussed on price vs performance instead of absolute performance at any cost I'd appreciate it. I feel like a buzzkill around here
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Old 14th September 2005, 12:33 PM   #74
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These did a fine job with rock - scary actually - compression drivers from 100 cycles up , three 18" horn loaded subs below - quadamped

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Old 14th September 2005, 05:05 PM   #75
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Originally posted by Magnetar
These did a fine job with rock - scary actually - compression drivers from 100 cycles up , three 18" horn loaded subs below - quadamped
With all the respect - I don't see myself putting those boxes in my living room.. So, can we stick to something that is reasonable?

Something, that doesn't ruin living space, as well sounds decent?

BTW - I kind of decided to try my luck building Eton 11.2 kit. If you know I'm making mistake - "speak now or forever hold your peace"
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Old 14th September 2005, 05:10 PM   #76
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Originally posted by tamosius
So, can we stick to something that is reasonable?
Do you have room for something like the 825 boxes with the horn on top? I can hardly think of a better speaker for rock, especially with the updated gear in them.
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Old 14th September 2005, 10:03 PM   #77
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Originally posted by Cal Weldon

Do you have room for something like the 825 boxes with the horn on top? I can hardly think of a better speaker for rock, especially with the updated gear in them.
I feel so lucky I'm not your neighbour..

BTW - their size probably is the reason why they are outside, isn't it?
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Old 15th September 2005, 09:06 AM   #78
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