Loud budget monitor (UK)

[richie00boy]

Hey, I think we can maybe come up with something here I'm looking into a 2-way based on an 8 or 10 inch main unit for DJ monitoring. I am about to buy a pair of TW034XO for the tweeters. I had a quick look BK a while ago, but with several projects on the go I never dug very deep for this application.

I really wouldn't push the TW034X0 as far down as 1k, especially if you are to be playing it at high SPL. A quick rule of thumb is that you should cross over no lower than double Fs, so 1.6k in this case.

[Matttcattt]

Originally posted by richie00boy
Hey, I think we can maybe come up with something here I'm looking into a 2-way based on an 8 or 10 inch main unit for DJ monitoring. I am about to buy a pair of TW034XO for the tweeters. I had a quick look BK a while ago, but with several projects on the go I never dug very deep for this application.

Cool, after my subwoofer I think this will make a nice project, and with your help it might be good.

My pair would be to replace my crappy current mains. The tweeter is dead in one and going in the other.

Originally posted by richie00boy
I really wouldn't push the TW034X0 as far down as 1k, especially if you are to be playing it at high SPL. A quick rule of thumb is that you should cross over no lower than double Fs, so 1.6k in this case.

This was the sort of advice I was hoping for by posting my ideas. What crossover point would you suggest? ~3kHz seems popular.

I’m thinking mostly medium SPL. My amplifier is supposedly 35W RMS per channel so I think the 70W rating on the TW034X0 will be ok. I’ve never managed to get the volume past ~1/5th of the way round, and this is deafening to listen to. Not knowing the sensitivity of my mains, I cannot gage the SPL, so I don’t know what "high" is.

[edit]: When writing a message, it is so hard to get back into programming mode and check the coding.

[richie00boy]

Just wondering why you need 10 inchers in what I assume is your bedroom. You could get nicer sound with smaller drive units and, as you already have a sub the deep stuff isn't a problem.

Alternatively, you could make a pair of 10 inchers and ditch the sub.

Of course, you could be like me and like a big, projecting soundstage, and I find that the larger drive units seem to do that better.

If I were you I would like to experiment with crossover frequencies to find the best choice. I find that moving it up the range (to maybe 4-5k) brings the vocals out into the room, but at the expense of off-axis response and risk of harshness from breakup. You need to choose the drive unit well in this application.

Are you able to scavenge any of those chip amps you had and then you could build an active system? Active makes it much faster, easier and cheaper to experiment.

[Matttcattt]

Originally posted by richie00boy
Just wondering why you need 10 inchers in what I assume is your bedroom. You could get nicer sound with smaller drive units and, as you already have a sub the deep stuff isn't a problem.

Alternatively, you could make a pair of 10 inchers and ditch the sub.

Of course, you could be like me and like a big, projecting soundstage, and I find that the larger drive units seem to do that better.

If I were you I would like to experiment with crossover frequencies to find the best choice. I find that moving it up the range (to maybe 4-5k) brings the vocals out into the room, but at the expense of off-axis response and risk of harshness from breakup. You need to choose the drive unit well in this application.

Are you able to scavenge any of those chip amps you had and then you could build an active system? Active makes it much faster, easier and cheaper to experiment.

I dont NEED 10 "inchers" but the Delta 10 gave a nice response curve compared to the 8 "inchers" sold by maplin. I will look at the BK Electronic speakers tomorrow morning, before my maths exam. :P

I dont know about soundstage, but im a basshead so i want as much bass as possible without it sounding horrible. Also, with a larger driver, the LF cutoff point is lower, so I can cross it over with the sub lower.

Yes, I am going active, or at least making a load of active line lever crossovers as they will be cheaper than high level ones. This way I can also make them variable, as you suggested and ajust it until I like it.

What driver would you suggest? Are you definatly going with the AP210Z0?

[richie00boy]

I would look at speakers smaller than 10 inch if I were you, especially if you have a decent sub.

My comment earlier about crossing over at 4-5k is obviously dependent on the main drive unit. This would be too high for a 10 inch unit, but OK for a 5 inch unit. I'd say no more than 3k for a 10 inch unit.

With a larger drive unit the F3 point is usually lower (not always), but the box requirements are also scaled up.

I'm glad you are going active, it makes things a lot easier.

As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, the Audax 8 inch units are not up to much and I am looking into alternatives. I would stay away from PA type drive units as they usually have poor specs in relation to hi-fi use, i.e. high Fs.

[Ouroboros]

You're being a bit unfair to say the Audax AP210Z0 units aren't up to much. They have a low FS but also a very low Qtc, so the bass rolls off quite early in a sealed box, but as the slope is slow, it will tolerate bass boost without getting to sound uncontrolled.

I would rather have a low Qt woofer with an electronic amplitude compensation network in place of a high Qtc woofer any day.

[Matttcattt]

Originally posted by richie00boy
I would look at speakers smaller than 10 inch if I were you, especially if you have a decent sub.

My comment earlier about crossing over at 4-5k is obviously dependent on the main drive unit. This would be too high for a 10 inch unit, but OK for a 5 inch unit. I'd say no more than 3k for a 10 inch unit.

With a larger drive unit the F3 point is usually lower (not always), but the box requirements are also scaled up.

I'm glad you are going active, it makes things a lot easier.

As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, the Audax 8 inch units are not up to much and I am looking into alternatives. I would stay away from PA type drive units as they usually have poor specs in relation to hi-fi use, i.e. high Fs.

Ok, ill have a look at some other drivers. Im modeling the BK Electronic drivers now.

[richie00boy]

You're being a bit unfair to say the Audax AP210Z0 units aren't up to much.

Maybe I am, I imagine if high SPL is not a major goal then a very nice sounding speaker can be made. The 3 key Thiele/Small parameters are spot on for a nice design, but the small Xmax limits it's application. Adding boost only compounds this matter.

I would rather have a low Qt woofer with an electronic amplitude compensation network in place of a high Qtc woofer any day.

And what about a high Qtc woofer with an electronic compensation network to flatten/damp response, thereby lowering power requirements

[SimontY]

[Matttcattt]

Ok, i have modeled a load of drivers that look ok... Going to my maths exam now...