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Old 6th June 2004, 08:15 PM   #1
tadman is offline tadman  Denmark
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Thumbs down PHL woofers!!!!

Hi

My dear friend Stella bought a lot of stuff from PHL like me, but he did not returned it for some reasons - I guessed he liked what he heard.

However, I did not understand this choice, so after lots of arguering concerning the PHL's 15" woofers which was the only speakers I did not tested so far( read I gave up...!!!!), I borrowed a pair.

Guess what, these speakers are some of the worst sounding 15" I've ever come a cross. They beamed like hell.

In the mean time Stella borrowed a paif of pristine TAD 1602 from me. I went out with his PHL's and he did not believe my words, after.....

Yes, we did a direct comparison with the TAD and now the weakness was even more apearent.

Well, Stella decided to buy the TAD 1602 and the PHL stuff went up for sale...that's it..

I do not say, the the TAD is perfect, but in comparison to the PHL's it sure was......

Warning, even for pro audio, I can not recommend this brand.....

Thanks for your time, The TADMAN
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Old 6th June 2004, 10:09 PM   #2
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It's been said that there's a constant and immutable ratio of Fs to cone size, per manufacturer. For PHL, that ratio is very high, especially compared with other brands. Their drivers are extremely efficient and tend to have very high and wide bandwidths. Their speakers are made for high efficiency--thin, lightweight cones--and the breakup on them makes them beam, like you say. In a PA setting, this is often desirable, because it can reduce feedback hugely.

The other thing that must be said here is that using a 15" speaker to cover frequency ranges where beaming is an issue, is a Bad Idea generally. I hope for your sake you're not trying to make a 2-way speaker with a 15" woofer. Any speaker that size, regardless of manufacturer, really needs to be crossed at or below ~500hz at the maximum.
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Old 7th June 2004, 04:13 AM   #3
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How were they loaded? Horn length, back chamber, flare rate, throat size, mouth size? Or in a BR box? Volume, baffle size, port size, tuning? Room placement? Which model PHL?

Reason I ask I found the 5320 (1601a and 1602) to be superior sounding and more sensitive to the TADs in all respects when horn loaded, BR boxed and loaded in a Karlson coupler.

The highest I'd run any of these is 650 cycles and would use a steep low pass crossover (unless horn loaded) --

IME the TAD woofers are over rated and way over priced.
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Old 7th June 2004, 12:04 PM   #4
tadman is offline tadman  Denmark
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HI

Model 5310 and 5380 I think. We did comparison side by side with no enclosure.

I put the 5380 in a small enclosure at approx 90 litre with a 12db LR cut off at 800 cycle.

Well, it's true that 15" is not that good at 800 cycle, but it can work out proberly. I use a JBL K2 9500 14" now with my 4002 drivers.

The sound from the PHL was like a delay on notes, proberly caused by the hard suspension and the cone. Like an old reverb. The notes was repeating each other in higher frequencies.

I also did try out the highly rated 12" from same company and this was just as bad. However, the 3451 and some of the mid 6" are ok. I would rate them 8 from 0-13

The Tad 1602 would get a 9

JBL 375 a 10

Coral M100 a 10

the TAD 4001/4002 a 11-12

the TAD 1201 a 10

the TAD 2001 a 12

the PHL 12" and 15" barely a 6

The Sony SUP-L11 a 7

JBL 2235 a 8

This is just some of the speakers I've come a cross during the years.

I still think the the PHL 15" is the worst 15" I've ever heard. That's it.

Tadman
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Old 7th June 2004, 02:10 PM   #5
stella is offline stella  Denmark
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Tadman has a story to tell to all of us about taking care of our hearing!
It all started with he became an unofficial importer of PHL in Denmark, in those days he was a man in love and kept spreading the gospell with great enthusiasm about how fantastic these french drivers where.
Tadman was not only a audio enthusiast but also a tallented semi pro electric guitar player. He was used to the high SPL's from the studio and from frequent live jazz concerts where he became known for putting his ears right into the speakers to feel the full blast from those Fenders thru the 2500W amps.
To recreate this at home, without compromising his good relationship with his neighbours, was a problem.
Headphones didnt have the grunt, so he built a "ear speaker" resembling a cross between Big Benn and a gigantic headphone. This he placed behind a chair where he sat, with two 12" PHL woofers centered app. 2" from his ears, it worked fine, he couldnt hear annything above 2kHz anyway, due to his longtime, high SPL exposures.
Then one day while sitting there and listening to John Scoefield, his dog stumbled in the wires between the CD player and his 250W Citation amplifier, this unplugged the RCA's and made the amp go unstable and self destruct! The PHL survived but both his ear drums ruptured.
This was fixed at the hospital, but he also got a very unusual and strong 500Hz tinitus that agrevates with his state of mind.
One of the triggers is the sight of PHL woofers, this is what he call "the PHL howl"!! This ofcourse make him unsuited to evaluate the sound from them.
Dont mention PHL to him unless you call it: f......PHL, and dont invite him for dinner should you have some!
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Old 7th June 2004, 02:36 PM   #6
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Hi, your method of testing tells nothing.
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Old 7th June 2004, 03:14 PM   #7
tadman is offline tadman  Denmark
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Default Dinner???

Hi Stella

Please give dinner!!!

And I'll never say one bad word about PHL, Lowther etc.

I'll just bring my trumpet and play together with the PHL stuff....

Check out B&C instead. They mo' cheaper and some of their stuff aint bad at all

Får du ellers noget fisse???

Vi ses, Tadman
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Old 7th June 2004, 03:39 PM   #8
tom1356 is offline tom1356  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tadman
HI

...I would rate them 8 from 0-13

Tadman

Sorry, anyone who uses a 0-13 scale can't be trusted.
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Old 7th June 2004, 04:56 PM   #9
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Do you mean this 15" bass driver used in the Pass Labs Rushmore?
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Old 7th June 2004, 05:10 PM   #10
BrianGT is offline BrianGT  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by roddyama
Do you mean this 15" bass driver used in the Pass Labs Rushmore?
I heard someone say that the Rushmore uses the 5010, which PHL says is a bass driver, good from 35hz to 2000hz:
http://www.phlaudio.com/products/15inchbass.html

The 5380, which tadman is referring to is considered an extended driver, good from 60hz to 3000hz:
http://www.phlaudio.com/products/15inchext.html

The 5010 is said to be optimized for bass extension and sound quality, while the 5380 is said to be optimized for sensitivity and extension.

--
Brian
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