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Old 2nd June 2004, 09:59 AM   #21
navin is offline navin  India
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oh boy what a hornet's nest....

maybe i should have been clearer....

when the 901 first came out i remember every mag that trashed it offered the explanation "how can one driver operate from 40-20000Hz?"

Today drivers like the FE103,107,127, 206, 208, W3 871, W4 657 or 923, JX92 etc... are debunking this myth. I know a few people who use 3-8" fullrange drivers and are quite satisfied.

Did anyone (calling all "fossils") listen to the Bose 4" HVC driver used on the 901s? BTW me recollects HVC stood for Helical Voice Coil. I mean listen to the driver not the system.

In many of my past expereinces going back to the AR3/2ax I found that the drivers used were really quite good and a bit of tweaking or even using the drivers in a different application as intended often prodcuded better sound.

For example the Decca Ribbons on a modfied DQ10 were my 1st brush with those excellent tweeters and also the beautiful Audax 5" midrange.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 12:21 PM   #22
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don't worry, I know what you mean..

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Old 2nd June 2004, 02:47 PM   #23
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The 901 was a competitive design in the '70's. Nowadays, IMO, Bose is distinguished most by its advertising in non audio-oriented publications and its aggressive legal department.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 02:57 PM   #24
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I agree, and to make matters worse Bose drive units are made in Indian, with almost slave labour conditions, A UK company called Mission tried to make there drivers there but the quality was so poor, they pulled out real fast, I think the owner of Bose is an indian Chap, Like i said before Bose sells like crazy, its more about style than content! Who said Good things are not cheap and cheap things are not good? They didnt know about marketing did they!
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Old 2nd June 2004, 07:57 PM   #25
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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Through my latest work using many equations considered for Mr. Linkwitz's work in his open baffle loudspeakers has prompted me to disect my father's 901s. (and yes, I was the young'un that was lost many moons ago.) And, so I return with much a mature and capable mind.


Comments on the 901s: Distinctive sound...there's something about the sound of the 901s that is interesting. Even when listening to my Open Baffles I wonder how the 901s are in comparison. The 901s are powerful and sparkly. That's how I can best describe them. Their bass is about 40Hz. deep and smooth all the way down there too. They are clear, but not truthfully clear--it's a perceiverence thing where an accentuated treble or mid-range (still unsure) gives such an effect. I know this because I've A/B'd my baffles. The mid-range also isn't clear because one is reflecting the sound off of the walls more so than firing into the listening space. I've also seen the paper where the Reflect+direct sound interpretation was made--I believe the interpretation to be immature and brute in terms of not understanding sound as it travels in a space. I am not educated enough to support my statement mathematically though, I can provide some inductive reasoning for such an argument.


Anyway, I've been dreaming up some designs--I'll draw some up quickly. The first picture will make use of the fact that reflecting off the back walls is bad and should fire into the listening space first. I'm thinking of using 2x Silver Flute ribbons and 8x Silver Flute 5.25" drivers in some type of enclosure (sealed, vented or, even OB ...hmmm..).Click the image to open in full size.

And the next, takes the advantages of bipolar radiation.


Click the image to open in full size.


The key will be to keep per unit cost relatively low.


Oh yeah, Dr. Bose was born in Calcutta, India. His name is Amar Gopal Bose.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 11:09 PM   #26
BAM is offline BAM
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I was thinking about making a mini line array using nine of these bad boys:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-300

Click the image to open in full size.

I wonder what sort of bass loading I could use to get the most bass from these. One option would be to get them in the array and then once the combined sensitivity is something like 90dB 1w/1m, I could use a contouring network (passive EQ) to apply 5dB of cut to everything above the point at which the port is tuned, and tune the enclosure so that there is a sort of shelf at the port's tuning frequency which will be below Fs. That way the port is absorbing all the amplifier's power at these frequencies (much like the Bose 901 does), and the frequency resposne can be deeper.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 11:39 PM   #27
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I think I might have to get a bunch of those except go with about 24 per side on an OB array which will help offset that tilted response. You have to add some other drivers for bass because loading small drivers below Fs takes a lot of drivers and steep attentuation to offset the rising response to Fs. An array will likely tame that response spike at 12K.

I wish it was under $1 though like the pioneer 4".
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Old 3rd June 2004, 12:21 AM   #28
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My thoughts on the 901:

They served a very useful purpose.

Can you imagine the martini sipping crowd in their business suits and dresses sitting in front of a set of Cerwin Vega's?

Me either

How 'bout this,

A 4X4 and a luxury car costing the same still only really do one thing. Deliver you.

A speaker just delivers the sound to your ear.

Why are you comparing 4" drivers in a direct/reflecting system with what I would like to term "real loudspeakers"?

Those little marvels of electronics with their EQ/processors, nasty harmonics interference and stylish pedestals where just right for the market.

Maybe not for 4X4ing though.

I have never owned a pair, but have listened to many (back when my friends were older and richer than I). Still have a friend of a friend who stands proudly by his. He's stuck in the sixties, I've moved on.

But, I do wish to all the dickens I'd invented the 901. Wouldn't you be proud to have that on your resume/CV? Too young I suppose.

And besides, when all is said and done, after a few beer, those 901's sounded just fine

Think I'll go have one

Cheers
Cal

Long live the entrepreneur who can cause this kind of controversy with a bunch of 4 inch drivers.

IMHO that's funny
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Old 3rd June 2004, 06:10 AM   #29
navin is offline navin  India
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paradise_Ice
I agree, and to make matters worse Bose drive units are made in ... A UK company called Mission tried to make there drivers there but the quality was so poor...
Please refrain from statement such as this.

1. "Slave Labour" conditions in India, China, the banana republics, Brazil, etc... are the reason why many goods available in the "developed" countries are affordable. Have you visited a Indian or Chinese or Costa Rican or Nicaraguan factory or are you just going by media reports. The media's job is to sell papers and if that means to sensationlize an issue they will.

2. Indian Prodcuts are not bad. Maybe a walk around steel plants, software companies, hospitals in any developed country esp. US, UK and Germany will be an eye opener. I am part of an Indian company that exports over 50% of their production to the US, UK and Germany and this despite there are cheaper products locally available.

3. Mission was a anamoly. In fact Mission found that they could do the same things cheaper in China. So did Monitor Audio, Mordant Short, NAD and a host of other audio cos. like AR, Infinity, etc... In fact I am given to believe that some Infinity and AR systems as well as JPW etc.. are MADE IN INDIA.

4. For every faliure of a foriegn company in India I can list 9 success stories. A batting average of 9/10 is not bad. it is better than China's batting average and a hell of a lot better than Babe Ruth's :-) in fact in of my working with experience with US, German, British, Australian, cos over more than 2 decades the only faliure i had was when we tried to work with a Taiwanese company.

5. As far as pay scales go I will be the first to agree that the average Indian salaries are about 10-20% of US, UK, German salaries. Yet at these low salaries Indian labour is atleast employed. I pay my driver about Rs. 7000 (USD 150) a month (outside Bombay that salary would be half). Yet he is very happy earning that. If I did not employ him he'd be out of a job. The funny thing is that it was a Swiss friend of mine who woke me up to this fact; and all the while I was feeling ashamed of paying salaries that are 10-20% of US/European wages.

6. Marketing in an American expertise (have you worked on Madison Av?). Coke would be a nice example. You pay $1 for about 5 cents of raw material. The fact that an American of Indian descent was able to sell a bunch of $3 4" drivers fro $1000 and that too after making an American Institue (a small college near Boston called MIT) fund part of the research just goes to show his resourcefulness.

7. Lastly just because we Indians are not 17 stone Kung Fu Experts, like our dear beloved moderators, does not mean we can't be just as nationalistic and deadly.
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Old 3rd June 2004, 06:37 AM   #30
navin is offline navin  India
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cal Weldon
Why are you comparing 4" drivers in a direct/reflecting system with what I would like to term "real loudspeakers"?...
Long live the entrepreneur who can cause this kind of controversy with a bunch of 4 inch drivers.
IMHO that's funny
no real reason expect....
1. the fostex 107, JX92, TB W4 657 and W3 871 are similar sized.
2. i am toying with the notion of using a fullrange on an OB atleast above 400Hz.
3. Given that some fullranges available today are small (there are larger full ranges like the Visaton B200, Fostex 206/208, etc..) and Bose used similar drivers in the 901 I was wondering if Bose was on to something.
4. OB theory dictates that part of the sound be reflected off the rear/side walls so did Bose in the 901.

I am not comparing the 107 or JX92 with the 901 but it is interesting to note that these drivers share the same size and, when used in OB, similar dispersion patterns.
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