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Old 25th May 2004, 08:05 PM   #1
RyanC is offline RyanC  United States
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Default Importance of flush mounting drivers

Hello,

I am finishing up my cabs and I was wondering about this- I was thinking about trying to flush mount my drivers in a sheet of foam- so that the foam would be flush with the 12" woofer and the 8" and tweeter would be slightly recessed-

I know that I have read that it is important to flush mount the drivers but I was wondering why? I am trying to see if I can do somthing else becuase the audax aerogel 8" would be very difficult to create a router template for-

I guess what I am really wanting to know is if there are some tricks that might be effective that would not necessarily require me to router the baffle- Fabric or foam? Is it more important (flush mounting) on tweeters and midbass- then on sub woofers?

My speakers are a 3 way with a fountek jp2 an audax 8" aerogel and a Tc2+ 12" woofer- Thanks again,

Ryan
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Old 25th May 2004, 08:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Importance of flush mounting drivers

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanC
I am trying to see if I can do somthing else becuase the audax aerogel 8" would be very difficult to create a router template for-

I guess what I am really wanting to know is if there are some tricks that might be effective that would not necessarily require me to router the baffle- Fabric or foam? Is it more important (flush mounting) on tweeters and midbass- then on sub woofers?
I can't be sure, but by the way you are describing the problem, it sounds like you are assuming that the flange recess must be routered AFTER the hole is cut. It does not have to be done this way, and if you router the recess first, it can be done with a simple circle cutting jig.

EDIT: I just realized you are probably talking about a non-round flange.
In that case you can avoid making a full jig by just clamping a straightedge and moving it around the cutout, but it takes patience.
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Old 25th May 2004, 09:06 PM   #3
zobsky is offline zobsky  India
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you could use leather or some such compressable covering on the front baffle, such that the driver can be impressed into the covering, ... a pseudo flush mounting
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Old 25th May 2004, 09:09 PM   #4
RyanC is offline RyanC  United States
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The audax woofer is a square chassis with rounded edges- not impossible but not easy either- Here is a link-

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=296-084

thanks again,

Ryan
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Old 25th May 2004, 09:22 PM   #5
RyanC is offline RyanC  United States
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So what are the negatives of not flush mounting at all? just trying to understand- thanks,

Ryan
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Old 25th May 2004, 09:40 PM   #6
RyanC is offline RyanC  United States
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Ok so I think I get it- The frequencies that radiate omnidirectionally or at least beyond 180 degrees will not leave the baffle or edge of a speaker until it reaches the edge of its piece- So these are going to be the lower frequencies of a woofer (before it gets beamy) and any frequencies of a tweeter?

I have a ribbon tweeter so flush mounting would be more important on the sides than the top and bottum (not that you could actually do it that way but)??

Why is it better for the sound to reach the edge of your baffle then to project from the edge of the speaker??-

I am still going back to my first thought which was to cut a 1" thick piece of foam to flush mount and even recess mount the drivers- Then I can cover the whole peice of foam with fabric that goes into the speaker cutouts. What do you guys think about that? would it be better even then flush mounted into wood as it is sound absorbtive matierial (although not really at lower frequencies) Or will I only be minimizing the problem slightly? thanks again,

Ryan
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Old 25th May 2004, 10:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by RyanC
I am still going back to my first thought which was to cut a 1" thick piece of foam to flush mount and even recess mount the drivers- Then I can cover the whole peice of foam with fabric that goes into the speaker cutouts. What do you guys think about that? would it be better even then flush mounted into wood as it is sound absorbtive matierial (although not really at lower frequencies) Or will I only be minimizing the problem slightly? thanks again,

Ryan
That seems like a sound idea to me, kind of an over-engineered version of the felt or foam strips often used alongside tweeters, or the AIG Imagers (absorbtive foam circles for surrounding drivers).

Bear in mind I have no direct experience, but it seems to make sense.
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Old 26th May 2004, 01:30 AM   #8
Vikash is offline Vikash  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by RyanC
The audax woofer is a square chassis with rounded edges- not impossible but not easy either
I've attempted this by making a template for the router to follow. It worked ok, but you need patience and/or experience with router woodworking - well relative to me at least: http://www.vikash.info/audio/mtm_flo...uild_day03.asp I would absolutely cut the recess first if I were to do it again. But next time I'll just avoid non-circular drivers

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanC
Ok so I think I get it- The frequencies that radiate omnidirectionally or at least beyond 180 degrees will not leave the baffle or edge of a speaker until it reaches the edge of its piece- So these are going to be the lower frequencies of a woofer (before it gets beamy) and any frequencies of a tweeter?

Why is it better for the sound to reach the edge of your baffle then to project from the edge of the speaker??
Well I'll have a stab at giving you an answer...
Flush mounting will reduce edge diffraction which occurs when the wave reaches sharp edges. This is more important in mid and higher frequency drivers and usually you don't need it except for looks in (large) bass drivers (ie. subwoofers). But edge diffraction will also occur when the wave reaches the end of the baffle, hence a reason for beveling the baffle edge. The width of the baffle determines the baffle step and the curvature of the edges determine to a degree how smooth the transition between radiating in half to full space is.

This is a particularly good animation to illustrate diffraction: http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/images/difdemo.gif
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Old 26th May 2004, 02:42 AM   #9
tiroth is offline tiroth  United States
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Vikash,

Excellant info! I am very new to router usage; can I ask, how did you "follow" a template that is above the work piece? All of my pilot bits have the bearing on the bottom (w.r.t. the work). Is there a kind of bit with the bearing on top?

I too have to mount some of these in the near future.

RyanC,

Can I ask, what is your mid and what are your xo points? I am very slowly working on a similar project, AC G2 and PR170M0. I am very tempted by the TC2+ but didn't want to have to run it up too high. (and box is too big with both midwoof + TC2+!
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Old 26th May 2004, 03:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiroth
Is there a kind of bit with the bearing on top?
they are called pattern bits, available from a variety of sources. You can also use template gudes and a straight bit - in this case your template needs to be larger than the cutout. Grizzly, woodcraft and others sell them on the web. be sure to get the short ones or your templates will need to be very thick when cutting the recess.

Somewhere on the web (includung somewhere in the forum here)there is a guide to making your own templates using a 1/4" straight bit and a 3/4" - somebody who cloned JM labs stuff shows how he made a template for a Focal TLR tweeter. I used the process and ended up with a fairly good fit after a couple of tries for my T120s. Use a router with very low runout and a perfectly centered base or you'll end up with a sloppy fit. (says he knowingly) I've been able to get almost as good a fit using a straightedge and freehanding the curved parts.
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