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Old 22nd May 2004, 06:17 PM   #1
markp is offline markp  United States
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Default TB w3-871s and low x-max

How can you get any midbass output from a 3" speaker with a .5mm x-max? It will be driven into distortion at slightly above average levels. Can someone explain why they are used down so low in all the setups I've seen here?
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Old 22nd May 2004, 06:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by markp
How can you get any midbass output from a 3" speaker with a .5mm x-max? It will be driven into distortion at slightly above average levels. Can someone explain why they are used down so low in all the setups I've seen here?
Are you asking "why bother to use this speaker, it can't play LOUD", or are you asking "how do the various cabinet designs published protect the driver from overexcursion"?
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Old 22nd May 2004, 06:53 PM   #3
markp is offline markp  United States
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Default Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by leadbelly


Are you asking "why bother to use this speaker, it can't play LOUD", or are you asking "how do the various cabinet designs published protect the driver from overexcursion"?
Both
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Old 22nd May 2004, 07:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by markp

Both
Well, I'll be brief because a TB fanatic will pipe in eventually, , but the anwer to question 1 is it costs $US12. The answer to question 2 really is not so simple and you might want to read up on cabinet design, but to oversimplify, if you put that little speaker in a 0.1 ft^3 tightly sealed box, the cone will have a tougher time moving in and out because air can't rush in and out of the box to fill the space. If you know all this, please don't take this as patronizing, I keep getting called an audio snob lately.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 07:20 PM   #5
markp is offline markp  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by leadbelly


Well, I'll be brief because a TB fanatic will pipe in eventually, , but the anwer to question 1 is it costs $US17. The answer to question 2 really is not so simple and you might want to read up on cabinet design, but to oversimplify, if you put that little speaker in a 0.1 ft^3 tightly sealed box, the cone will have a tougher time moving in and out because air can't rush in and out of the box to fill the space. If you know all this, please don't take this as patronizing, I keep getting called an audio snob lately.
Yes, I do know all this but no snobbery taken. Even if the speaker only cost $17 if it doesn't do the job its worth nothing to me. People are using multiple drivers to get the output level up so why dont the just use a single higher quality driver? A sealed box will control cone excursion at the expense of a higher low freq roll-off. A reflex box will overdrive the speakers x-max trying to get the bass extension.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 07:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by markp
People are using multiple drivers to get the output level up so why dont the just use a single higher quality driver?
Fewer, higher quality drivers? You sound like planet10...

I think 2 of the big factors are that newbies love to gain experience with low cost drivers, and secondly cosmetics. A bookshelf 2 way with SS drivers might cost the same as a line array with TB's, but with the switch off the latter would probably catch your eye first.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 07:30 PM   #7
markp is offline markp  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by leadbelly


Fewer, higher quality drivers? You sound like planet10...

I think 2 of the big factors are that newbies love to gain experience with low cost drivers, and secondly cosmetics. A bookshelf 2 way with SS drivers might cost the same as a line array with TB's, but with the switch off the latter would probably catch your eye first.
Yes, but I love ScanSpeak drivers! I've been using them for over 20 years with only great results.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 08:28 PM   #8
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
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Why didn´t you start a thread called "I love Scan Speak drivers!" ?
To say the least (and not land in the sinbin) that wouldn´t be so negative.
And you probably have listened to the Scan Speaks at least.

BTW: 1. Before someone else starts a new thread about the Fostex FE-103. They have a xmax of 0.35mm.
2. This belongs in the upcoming "taste"-forum
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Old 22nd May 2004, 08:54 PM   #9
Zaph is offline Zaph  United States
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Default Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max

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Originally posted by markp
How can you get any midbass output from a 3" speaker with a .5mm x-max? It will be driven into distortion at slightly above average levels. Can someone explain why they are used down so low in all the setups I've seen here?
The Tangband voice coil is 7 mm long. The magnetic gap is 6. subtract the two and you get 1mm p-p. linear Xmax is a small number but due to the larger length of the gap and coil, you can get significantly more output out of these before serious distortion sets in.

had the numbers been 3mm long coil and 2mm long gap, it still would be 1mm p-p, but one you hit Xmax distortion would start in hard and fast.

I would like to comment that the TB 871 has way more output than a Fostex FE87.

Quote:
Originally posted by markp
People are using multiple drivers to get the output level up so why dont the just use a single higher quality driver?
Personally, I would never use more than one 871 in a cabinet. I've seen some designs using two 871's with one as a .5 woofer. To mee this is pointless because it's easy enough to use a slightly larger woofer with a tweeter for a 2-way of the same size and cost but with great range and power handling.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 09:02 PM   #10
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It's been a lot of fun playing with the TB drivers and I've learned a fair amount doing it. I started with a single driver and was amazed by the sound so I just kept adding more drivers. I learned about different enclosures, crossovers, notch filters, line arrays, bipoles and dipoles. At this point I'm ready to move on to higher quality drivers with fewer parts. All of this experimentation has been relatively inexpensive as I just keep moving the drivers around to different enclosures. When someone comes to me and wants an inexpensive, easy to build speaker I will usually suggest TB first. Just my .02
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