Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max
Well, I'll be brief because a TB fanatic will pipe in eventually,
, but the anwer to question 1 is it costs $US12. The answer to question 2 really is not so simple and you might want to read up on cabinet design, but to oversimplify, if you put that little speaker in a 0.1 ft^3 tightly sealed box, the cone will have a tougher time moving in and out because air can't rush in and out of the box to fill the space. If you know all this, please don't take this as patronizing, I keep getting called an audio snob lately.
markp said:
Well, I'll be brief because a TB fanatic will pipe in eventually,
, but the anwer to question 1 is it costs $US12. The answer to question 2 really is not so simple and you might want to read up on cabinet design, but to oversimplify, if you put that little speaker in a 0.1 ft^3 tightly sealed box, the cone will have a tougher time moving in and out because air can't rush in and out of the box to fill the space. If you know all this, please don't take this as patronizing, I keep getting called an audio snob lately. Re: Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max
Yes, I do know all this but no snobbery taken. Even if the speaker only cost $17 if it doesn't do the job its worth nothing to me. People are using multiple drivers to get the output level up so why dont the just use a single higher quality driver? A sealed box will control cone excursion at the expense of a higher low freq roll-off. A reflex box will overdrive the speakers x-max trying to get the bass extension.leadbelly said:
Well, I'll be brief because a TB fanatic will pipe in eventually,
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max
Fewer, higher quality drivers? You sound like planet10...
I think 2 of the big factors are that newbies love to gain experience with low cost drivers, and secondly cosmetics. A bookshelf 2 way with SS drivers might cost the same as a line array with TB's, but with the switch off the latter would probably catch your eye first.
markp said:
Fewer, higher quality drivers? You sound like planet10...
I think 2 of the big factors are that newbies love to gain experience with low cost drivers, and secondly cosmetics. A bookshelf 2 way with SS drivers might cost the same as a line array with TB's, but with the switch off the latter would probably catch your eye first.
Why didn´t you start a thread called "I love Scan Speak drivers!" ?
To say the least (and not land in the sinbin) that wouldn´t be so negative.
And you probably have listened to the Scan Speaks at least.
BTW: 1. Before someone else starts a new thread about the Fostex FE-103. They have a xmax of 0.35mm.
2. This belongs in the upcoming "taste"-forum
To say the least (and not land in the sinbin) that wouldn´t be so negative.
And you probably have listened to the Scan Speaks at least.
BTW: 1. Before someone else starts a new thread about the Fostex FE-103. They have a xmax of 0.35mm.
2. This belongs in the upcoming "taste"-forum
markp said:
The Tangband voice coil is 7 mm long. The magnetic gap is 6. subtract the two and you get 1mm p-p. linear Xmax is a small number but due to the larger length of the gap and coil, you can get significantly more output out of these before serious distortion sets in.
had the numbers been 3mm long coil and 2mm long gap, it still would be 1mm p-p, but one you hit Xmax distortion would start in hard and fast.
I would like to comment that the TB 871 has way more output than a Fostex FE87.
Personally, I would never use more than one 871 in a cabinet. I've seen some designs using two 871's with one as a .5 woofer. To mee this is pointless because it's easy enough to use a slightly larger woofer with a tweeter for a 2-way of the same size and cost but with great range and power handling.
Attachments
It's been a lot of fun playing with the TB drivers and I've learned a fair amount doing it. I started with a single driver and was amazed by the sound so I just kept adding more drivers. I learned about different enclosures, crossovers, notch filters, line arrays, bipoles and dipoles. At this point I'm ready to move on to higher quality drivers with fewer parts. All of this experimentation has been relatively inexpensive as I just keep moving the drivers around to different enclosures. When someone comes to me and wants an inexpensive, easy to build speaker I will usually suggest TB first. Just my .02
Scan speak drivers are great, but not all of us want to sink multiple hundreds of dollars into our speaker designs. Some simply do not call for such extreme measures. I can't afford to spend that much on computer speakers. I can't afford to spend that much on bedroom speakers, or bathroom speakers, or whatever. For those type of applications, the TBs work fantastically. I can't think of a better sounding speaker at that price point.
As for x-max, with a filter as simple as a cap, you can achieve some fairly high spl levels with these. Right now I'm running mine unfiltered, but also accompanied with a sub. I just listened to some Metallica, and these speakers were able to keep up with the sub at levels loud enough that I would suspect irritated my landlord downstairs. Physically, their exursion appeared to be far beyond their .5mm x-max, but they still sounded great. I couldn't detect a degredation in the sound quality.
SS drivers are great, but sometimes such excess just doesn't make sense.
As for x-max, with a filter as simple as a cap, you can achieve some fairly high spl levels with these. Right now I'm running mine unfiltered, but also accompanied with a sub. I just listened to some Metallica, and these speakers were able to keep up with the sub at levels loud enough that I would suspect irritated my landlord downstairs. Physically, their exursion appeared to be far beyond their .5mm x-max, but they still sounded great. I couldn't detect a degredation in the sound quality.
SS drivers are great, but sometimes such excess just doesn't make sense.
Hi,
if you need more Xmax look at this nice part
http://www.monacor.de/de/produktsei...r=SPH-30X/4&bestellnummer=10.4400&uvp= 33,25
if you need more Xmax look at this nice part
http://www.monacor.de/de/produktsei...r=SPH-30X/4&bestellnummer=10.4400&uvp= 33,25
Driver Choices
I searched for drivers for my 7.1 home theatre project to satisfy the following design goals :
1) have the mid XO freqs as low and high as possible (100 Hz and 5000 Hz)
2) have the best possible off-axis performance (better than -3 dB for 30 degrees off-axis)
3) attain 106 dB
I looked at the specs for many drivers and had to decide where to compromise. I chose to use 4 TBs to get close to my goals at a cost of less than US $15 each including shippping and taxes.
Does anyone know of a single driver that is comparable in price that can get close to meeting my goals?
markp said:
I searched for drivers for my 7.1 home theatre project to satisfy the following design goals :
1) have the mid XO freqs as low and high as possible (100 Hz and 5000 Hz)
2) have the best possible off-axis performance (better than -3 dB for 30 degrees off-axis)
3) attain 106 dB
I looked at the specs for many drivers and had to decide where to compromise. I chose to use 4 TBs to get close to my goals at a cost of less than US $15 each including shippping and taxes.
Does anyone know of a single driver that is comparable in price that can get close to meeting my goals?
Re: Re: Re: TB w3-871s and low x-max
The main issues I have with using two 871's is that the required enclosure size is too large, the bandwidth is still very limited, power handling still sucks and the cost is relatively high compared to other options.
Compare a 1.5 two driver 871 system with a 55-1853 / 811435. The cost of the drivers is going to be cheaper (barely), the highs will be more extended and have better off axis response, the bass goes about an octave deeper, the box requirements are smaller and it handles more power. With a well designed crossover (which happened to be at 3khz in the one below) it's just a better speaker overall. I could say this about several combos.
Using a whole bunch of 871's in an array is something else however. The distortion probably goes down and the impact and dynamics go up enough to make it worthwhile. I might want to try one of those some day. The TB W2-880SA might be neat to use in an array also.
http://home.new.rr.com/zaph/audio/TBW2-880SA.jpg
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?read=305060
Of course, everyone has their own preferences. A 1.5 way dual 871 system wouldn't be my first choice. I will admit however something like that is easy to build and looks cool, two reasons that would be enough for many people.
sreten said:
It may be pointless to you but a 0.5 way sounds far better
balanced, and has 6dB more output capability, whilst still
giving that "full range" sound, avoiding a ~ 3KHz c/o.
The single driver approach IMO needs an added filter for balance.
The main issues I have with using two 871's is that the required enclosure size is too large, the bandwidth is still very limited, power handling still sucks and the cost is relatively high compared to other options.
Compare a 1.5 two driver 871 system with a 55-1853 / 811435. The cost of the drivers is going to be cheaper (barely), the highs will be more extended and have better off axis response, the bass goes about an octave deeper, the box requirements are smaller and it handles more power. With a well designed crossover (which happened to be at 3khz in the one below) it's just a better speaker overall. I could say this about several combos.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Using a whole bunch of 871's in an array is something else however. The distortion probably goes down and the impact and dynamics go up enough to make it worthwhile. I might want to try one of those some day. The TB W2-880SA might be neat to use in an array also.
http://home.new.rr.com/zaph/audio/TBW2-880SA.jpg
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?read=305060
Of course, everyone has their own preferences. A 1.5 way dual 871 system wouldn't be my first choice. I will admit however something like that is easy to build and looks cool, two reasons that would be enough for many people.
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