Eggleston's choice for Isobaric design & other controversial designs

[kensetsu]

OK... I really don't get it. Anytime that I've asked a question in the past that makes reference to an incrediblyh successful manufacturer and their design choices... I usually get a bunch of huge egos that could obviously blow this manufacturer away with their incredible design knowledge. ....and the reason that they aren't as successful as the big designer is because they won't sell out.... like say Mark Levinson or Mondial. C'mon.. please give me a break just this once. All the all of you "sour grapes" people to go to another thread. ....and if it makes you fel better.. then I agree... The world is flat and the emperors new robe is gorgeous. Now for those of you that are real scientists and ask the question "Why it might work?" as opposed making statements about "why it won't work." Well.. Welcome to this thread. We may even start a new trend of optimistic/open minded speaker builders as opposed to the "you're going to fall off the end of the world" type. Afterall, we all know that you can't send sounds thousands of miles away without wire, right? OK.. are all the chest pounding Yahoos gone? LOL.. that may actually include everyone that frequents this website. I guess we'll see.

So.... Any ideas on Eggleston's design choice? Remember, I've already heard all of the "you can't" statements that Eggleston, Wilson Audio, and Carver have obviously not. Let's see if we can figure out why those poor misinformed individuals chose to make such a poor choice OK.. sorry to be so wordy, but "Polarity Responders" belong in later phases of design development. After you've done 90% of what they'll tell you isn't possible.

[pinkmouse]

Any chance of some references so we know what you're proposing?

[SY]

Isobaric designs did not exactly originate with Eggleston. The most successful implementations I've heard, FWIW, were some Dynaudio designs which were QUITE unconventional.

[kensetsu]

Originally posted by pinkmouse
Any chance of some references so we know what you're proposing?

Hi,

I love the quote. Isn't it sad that it's true. Anyway, here are a couple this link will take you to a couple of examples:

http://www.egglestonworks.com/savoy.html

and Carver's Sunfire website at:

http://www.sunfire.com

There are more, but I have to run right now. Have you ever listened to any of these?

Thanks, Nick

[jewilson]

kensetsu,

I have a number of friends that will not post on the forum because they do not want to be criticized. I know, I have been before and it really dose not bother me that much. So just take the good with the bad, it all free.

The Eggleston designs are very interesting, and his design have won product of the year in Stereopile. Therefore, he must be on the right track. I Have never built a speaker that Isobaric design and it seem to have to many non-linear elements, I would just rather do a bass reflex. What is very interesting is that he runs the midrange drivers with out crossovers which could be linear, however could present a number of problems with the tweeters. Of course the low frequency response of the midrange is limited by the cabinet size.

Also I though he was out of business, but I see he's not.

[kensetsu]

Originally posted by SY
Isobaric designs did not exactly originate with Eggleston. The most successful implementations I've heard, FWIW, were some Dynaudio designs which were QUITE unconventional.

Hi,

I never said that Eggleston invented it. I merely said that despite everything negative that I've read on this design theory, Eggleston and some others appear to have implemented this design in a somewhat successful manner. I really would like to learn more about using this method in a practical manner. Unfortunately there are far too many "bottom bread butterers" on this website and in the world, in general. Sheesh! What was Don Garlits thinking when he invented the rear engine dragster. What a stupid idea. Didn't he know that you couldn't put the cart before the horse. Shouldn't F-15s have the engine in front? Like the old propellor aircraft. silly rabbit... perhaps you shold try cheerios instead. Anyway, I expect few positive responses to this post as most people are have difficulty with expanding their viewpoints. It's much easier to narrow it.

[kensetsu]

Originally posted by jewilson
kensetsu,

I have a number of friends that will not post on the forum because they do not want to be criticized. I know, I have been before and it really dose not bother me that much. So just take the good with the bad, it all free.

The Eggleston designs are very interesting, and his design have won product of the year in Stereopile. Therefore, he must be on the right track. I Have never built a speaker that Isobaric design and it seem to have to many non-linear elements, I would just rather do a bass reflex. What is very interesting is that he runs the midrange drivers with out crossovers which could be linear, however could present a number of problems with the tweeters. Of course the low frequency response of the midrange is limited by the cabinet size.

Also I though he was out of business, but I see he's not.

Hi, I have no problem with being criticized. I just have a problem with my time being wasted by people with narrow minds. Unfortunately, the world is filled with "Sheeple" and I know that I will have to interact with them, but it would be much better if they started a "Nick is a fool" thread. I'm sure my ex-wife would love to post there. LOL.. Anyway, I'm a single dad with custody of 3 kids, and have little time to waste. Yeah... I know... Like Isobaric designs, dads with custody don't work.. Don't tell any of my kids that... Unless you want all 3 of them ganging up on you. Anyway, since I've already read about 100 posts about why this direction is a waste of time... I'd be real interested in any positive/constructive ideas on the use of this theory.

Thanks, Nick

[jewilson]

kensetsu,

We are all entitled to our points of view in the forum. I cannot see that starting a thread with a negative attitude can lead to much.

Most of us seem to get buy just fine without doubling up on bass drivers to get the results needed. You know Tommy Ivo built a dragster with 4 engines and four wheel drive and it was a flop. So what performance attribute are we gaining buy doubling on the woofers

[phase_accurate]

As every other principle, isobaric has it's pros and cons. So all is a matter of taste, application .... etc.

There is definitely no best speaker nor best principle. Simple as that.

BTW: I also once heard one of the very early isobaric Dynaudio speakers. They had some of the cleanest bass I ever heard. But efficiency was veeeeeery low.

Regards

Charles

[kensetsu]

Originally posted by jewilson
kensetsu,

We are all entitled to our points of view in the forum. I cannot see that starting a thread with a negative attitude can lead to much.

Most of us seem to get buy just fine without doubling up on bass drivers to get the results needed. You know Tommy Ivo built a dragster with 4 engines and four wheel drive and it was a flop. So what performance attribute are we gaining buy doubling on the woofers

Hi Jim,

Thanks for pointing out everyones right to there opinion. I'm very aware of that, but my desire to have problem solvers instead of problem creators is not a negative attitude. As a matter of fact it's a double negative, which is a positive. LOL.. But if I choose to have a party and announce that I don't want anyone bringing guns and alcohol... Then that's my right. That doesn't mean that they can't bring their guns and alcohol to your party. That's OK with me, if it's OK with you. Anyway, I suspect that it's much easer to hang on to old outdated beliefs then it is to adopt new ones. Even if they have incredible merit. Jeez, I remember when I was a kid and drove better when I drank alcohol. Well that said, I would like to say that I really appreciate your concern. It was very thoughtful of you to lookout for me, but (and forgive me for saying this) it sounds like you'd like to justify being destructive and offering negative criticism. By the way, I believe that the space shuttle is launched by at least 5 engines. Tommy Ivo's poor implementation of a design did not make it a bad idea. Perhaps all speakers should have a single driver. Anyway, I love Philosophy. If I thought that I could have made a living at it, I wouldn't have gone to Pharmacy School for 6 years and Post grad at Purdue for Nuclear Physics. Anyway, this isn't a philosophy website and I don't think that I should waste anymore people's time with why I choose to intereact with problem solvers as opposed to problem creators.

Take care, Nick