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Old 30th April 2004, 04:05 AM   #51
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Default Dispersion

Ken,
I hold the view that dispersion attributes seem to be in the ear of the beholder...that is, once they are managed at the crossover properly.

The solid round wood tractrix I've heard sound no better, no worse than other horns of similar cut-off and contour, mostly just different. Love the looks of them, though. I really like the Altec 511 dispersion, just not the ring.

I do think the faster flare horns like the LeCleac'h seem to offer a clean window into the recording, and work very well with cones.
I believe the flare to be similar to the Azurahorn, not sure.

Tim
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Old 30th April 2004, 04:11 AM   #52
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Default Unity

Yes, the comb filtering can be a problem, and also the cancellation from the driver cone to throat pathway differences. Needed a phase plug, but had no room.

Tim
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Old 30th April 2004, 08:41 PM   #53
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Default Re: Dispersion

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Moorman
The solid round wood tractrix I've heard sound no better, no worse than other horns of similar cut-off and contour, mostly just different...........
I do think the faster flare horns like the LeCleac'h seem to offer a clean window into the recording...... and work very well with cones.....I believe the flare to be similar to the Azurahorn, not sure.

Tim
Yep. Azura's are a LeCleac'h flare. Original version (which I have) are 19" deep and 38" width, making for a very short throw and dispersion characteristics that are ideal for residential sized rooms.

The tractix curved Sierra Brooks grand 32 is 32 inches wide and guessing at 42" to 50" deep - so the throw is considerably longer than Azuras.

The longer throw of the tractix horns means you need to be considerably further back to get the sweet spot - and also contributes to the sweet spot being narrower.

OTOH, you get more horn loading from the tractix.

For some time, I have been considering the dispersion aspect carefully when I look at things - that is causing me to look at a number of things differently _big grin_

Regards

Ken L
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Old 1st May 2004, 07:25 AM   #54
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Default Azurahorn Cut-Off

Ken,
According to my calculations, your horn may load to around 250 Hz with something close to 178 Hz cut-off? Just a wild stab.
What is the supposed cut-off?

Tim
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Old 1st May 2004, 12:17 PM   #55
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Default that's pretty durn close for a wild stab _grin_

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Moorman
Ken,
According to my calculations, your horn may load to around 250 Hz with something close to 178 Hz cut-off? Just a wild stab.
What is the supposed cut-off?

Tim

Not sure of the technical cutoff but it starts dropping down pretty good about 125 hz -

I'm crossing over with a digital crossover at 134 hz 4th order to the subs

I've attached a jpeg where John Sheerin measured Jeffrey J's Azuras with DX4's that indicates you are very close with your calculations.

This chart also has had me thinking that eventually I may use the digital crossover only on the subs, and try the acoustic cut-off of the Azuras with the DX4's. However, when I tried that earlier with the Fostex FE206E's there was cone breakup distortion on orchestral crescendos - might be better with the DX4's and when I put the DDS waveguides on top with a passive crossover there.

My gameplan is to have the dispersion characteristics of the system match throughout the bandwith as much as possible. I have a pair of DDS ENG 1-90 pro 1" waveguides with Radian 475PB drivers. I chose the waveguides because they had the widest dispersion of any round horns I could find.

My initial target for passive crossover point to the dds horns is about 1250 hz or so. The reason I chose that point is because the Azuras are out of horn loading about 1500 hz and the ENG 1-90's load down to around 1000 hz,and because most vocal fundamentals are beneath that point.

I've got so much going on that it's hard to get time to fool around with it _grin_

It was encouraging to see Weltersys comments to Duke in HE about using cones for the 100/200 to 1000/2000 decade. While I was already embarked on that path, it makes me eager to get moving on it _bigger grin_

Regards

Ken L
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Old 1st May 2004, 01:46 PM   #56
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Default Re: that's pretty durn close for a wild stab _grin_

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken L
I've attached a jpeg where John Sheerin measured Jeffrey J's Azuras with DX4's that indicates you are very close with your calculations.
It wouldn't take the .jpg due to forum restrictions on size so I resized it down.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg azura_horn_lowther_dx4smaller.jpg (88.3 KB, 234 views)
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Old 1st May 2004, 02:55 PM   #57
Rocky is offline Rocky  Norway
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Any good reason why every low-freq compression driver is priced so stupidly high? Had a look at Ale's websites, they are even more expensive than their WE ancestors from the 30's.. Is it such a d**m costly process to manufacture such a driver? I understand powerful Alnico magnets have a price, but I cannot understand why noone clones for instance the WE 555 field coil.. I cannot see why this would be such a costly process... Only reason they are so expensive is because they are so d**m hard to find, no?

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Old 1st May 2004, 03:31 PM   #58
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
but I cannot understand why noone clones for instance the WE 555 field coil..
Steve Schell and Rich Drysdale have been developing a modern, improved version of the classic RCA MI-1428B field coil compression driver with the intent of bringing it to production and market.

They are hopeful that they will be producing the first units by October. They have plans to scale the same design up and down for different ranges and sizes.

They have so far given no indication of price. I would think that limited custom production pieces would be relatively high or higher. _big grin_

Regards

Ken L
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Old 2nd May 2004, 05:22 AM   #59
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