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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

SB Acoustics Satori MTM: MW16P-8 + TW29BN-B
SB Acoustics Satori MTM: MW16P-8 + TW29BN-B
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Old 10th August 2018, 12:56 PM   #1
88man is offline 88man  United States
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Default SB Acoustics Satori MTM: MW16P-8 + TW29BN-B

Here's Troels' SB MTM D'Appolito speaker build. Instead of floorstanders, these speakers sit atop a stereo pair of subs. Maintaining front baffle width, the height was decreased, and the depth was increased to yield 40L. The cabinet measures 29.5in x 9in x 15in. Instead of 20mm, 25mm Baltic Birch was used on the sides and back, and 38mm black MDF for the front baffle.

Maturity of sound was achieved after 20 hours of break-in. Prior to this construction, I had built the Ellam D'Appos. It was only natural to compare the SBA MTM with the Ellam D'Appo. I was very impressed with the Ellam D'Appos. However, the SBA MTM is a clear uprade from the Ellam D'Appos offering greater transparency, dynamics, image, extension. The 15W mid is an exemplary driver of midrange clarity, smoothness, detail, and potent bass. Surprisingly, the 5.5in Ellam D'Appo delivers as much bass at half the volume of the 6.5in SBA MTM. The price is efficiency, as the Ellam D'Appo is 4dB less efficient than the SBA MTM-16s. Perhaps, the SBA MTM-16's drier bass could also be from its thicker enclosure and more bracing?

Compared to the heavier coned Scan-Speak 18W and 18WU midrwoofers in my other speakers, the light cone weight of the MW16 also produces faster transients and more transparency in the mids. The lack of compression in the mids at high volume is also impressive. The treble is where the SB MTMs higher sensitivity renders inner detail with more clarity, dynamic contrast. The Be tweeter offers more clarity, air, and blacker background than soft- or other metal-domes. The Be tweeter clearly shows more accuity and definition of timbre without smear or veiling of detail in highs. Overall, the soundstage is open, airy, and spacious. Tonality and timbre are well balanced.

The SBA MTM produces a neutral, coherent, detailed, dynamic, open, airy, spacious sound. These speakers are equally suited for analog or digital sources, and solid state or tube gear due to its spectral balance and sonic neutrality. The high efficiency makes them ideal for my KT88 push-pull amp as the difference can be heard.
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File Type: jpg 20180701_191304.jpg (456.8 KB, 444 views)
File Type: jpg 20180702_133335.jpg (646.0 KB, 437 views)
File Type: jpg 20180701_020303.jpg (449.8 KB, 427 views)

Last edited by 88man; 12th August 2018 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 02:07 PM   #2
colmo is offline colmo  United Kingdom
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As a matter of interest are the subs sealed or ported.
If the subs are sealed do the ported my SB's integrate ok
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:14 PM   #3
88man is offline 88man  United States
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Originally Posted by colmo View Post
As a matter of interest are the subs sealed or ported.
If the subs are sealed do the ported my SB's integrate ok
The Subs are sealed. The MTM can be played ported or sealed. I end up rolling a small piece of acoustilux for aperiodic tuning.
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Old 18th August 2018, 08:25 PM   #4
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Excellent drivers....Excellent construction...Excellent!
"To Be...or not to Be.... is no longer the question"

Did you have polar radiation response goals for your speakers when you selected Troels design?
------
Martin King built a ported Satori MTM with the standard tweeter, and included design + polar data which you may find interesting for comparison.
Satori MTM Bass Reflex Speaker
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Old 18th August 2018, 08:55 PM   #5
88man is offline 88man  United States
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Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Excellent drivers....Excellent construction...Excellent!
"To Be...or not to Be.... is no longer the question"

Did you have polar radiation response goals for your speakers when you selected Troels design?
------
Martin King built a ported Satori MTM with the standard tweeter, and included design + polar data which you may find interesting for comparison.
Satori MTM Bass Reflex Speaker
Many thanks, LineSource! I didn't have polar radiation goals in mind. However, I knew that the vertical null would be anticipated, as in Martin's MTM polar response. Great information! Besides, I was expecting that D'Appolitos would project strongly in the horizontal plane. I find that one of its attributes is the minimal ceiling and floor reflections. It's best when listening in a fixed seated position, and it's not a speaker for roaming around the room doing errands. If you do, the airy magic is lost. The MTM's other attibute is its nearfield imaging at a distance. It's like listening to nearfield monitors at 10-15ft away.

The MW16P and TW29BN are extremely transparent drivers. It's motor structure produces minimal distortion and minimal compression at high volumes. The crossover point is low, so be careful to voice the tweeter resistor. I did change the tweeter resistor to 3.3 Ohm from the recommended 2.7 Ohm for the Be dome. I confirmed this with 3 different setups. Any perceived brightness is now tonally neutral.

Since the SBA drivers are an excellent value, I'm going to make 2 more passive crossover projects:

1) SBA Center Channel: (2) MW19P-8 + MR13P-4 + D3004/6040-10 Be

2) 2.5-way: ScanSpeak 22W/8851T00 + SBA MW16P-8 + SBA TW29BN (Series M+T Xover)
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:23 AM   #6
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Originally Posted by 88man View Post
Since the SBA drivers are an excellent value, I'm going to make 2 more passive crossover projects:
1) SBA Center Channel: (2) MW19P-8 + MR13P-4 + D3004/6040-10 Be
The MW19P projects a very natural tone on vocals, from strong rocker voices to detailed opera voices. I have a desk speaker using the MW19P-4 and SB29RDC-4 in a Parts Express 0.75cuft cabinet, driven by a small bi-amp with 1650Hz LR4/LR4 active crossover.
==========
You have probably visited Selah Audio site.

Rick Craig at Selah Audio has an Essenza kit which I think uses the same drivers you plan for your center channel.
(2) MW19P-8 + MR13P-4 + Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/6040-10 Beryllium tweeter

Rick's Ancora (or "anchor" in Italian) features the SB Acoustics Satori 5" and 6.5" drivers, with the Scan-Speak Illuminator dome tweeter
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File Type: jpg selah essenza .com.jpg (23.5 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg Ancora1.jpg (174.7 KB, 190 views)
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Old 19th August 2018, 04:21 AM   #7
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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Lookin great!! I bet they sound wonderful!
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Think before you speaker!
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:55 AM   #8
jtgofish is offline jtgofish
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Yes I agree the MW16P is a great midrange driver.There is a fundamental ease and naturalness to it.Which for most systems and recordings is probably what you want..A great every-day listening driver.I would not describe it as being super high resolution though.Which is not really a criticism.Just that some people might expect that sort of sound by its growing reputation but that is not what it is about.It is more $30,000 Sonus Faber Amati Futura than ATC or Yamaha dome mid.
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Old 19th August 2018, 02:34 PM   #9
88man is offline 88man  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
The MW19P projects a very natural tone on vocals, from strong rocker voices to detailed opera voices. I have a desk speaker using the MW19P-4 and SB29RDC-4 in a Parts Express 0.75cuft cabinet, driven by a small bi-amp with 1650Hz LR4/LR4 active crossover.
==========
You have probably visited Selah Audio site.

Rick Craig at Selah Audio has an Essenza kit which I think uses the same drivers you plan for your center channel.
(2) MW19P-8 + MR13P-4 + Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/6040-10 Beryllium tweeter

Rick's Ancora (or "anchor" in Italian) features the SB Acoustics Satori 5" and 6.5" drivers, with the Scan-Speak Illuminator dome tweeter
It's a shame PE doesn't carry the 0.75 cu. ft. cab. They've eliminated most rectangular boxes in favor of the curved cabs - useless to place crossovers inside.

I wasn't aware that Selah was using the same drivers. My goal was to have a matching SBA center channel that was equivalent to Troel's 8008 Center with 8" drivers. The choice of tweeter was based on FR and small diameter. I'm looking forward to changing my current Paradigm Studio Center Channel.
I checked out Selah's site and there are some nice projects
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